4/18/03

LC030418

JESS MARLOW>> TONIGHT ON LIFE AND TIMES --

HE IS A COP WHO WAS MOLESTED AS A CHILD. NOW HE’S URGING CARDINAL ROGER MAHONY TO OPEN THE CHURCH’S FILES ON PREDATOR PRIESTS.

MANUEL VEGA>> WHEN HE CAME DOWN, HE GAVE ME A ROSARY THAT JOHN PAUL II HAD GIVEN HIM, WHICH IS FINE, BUT INSTEAD OF THE ROSARY, I WOULD MUCH RATHER HAVE THE DOCUMENTS THAT HE’S HOLDING AND THE TRUTH.

JESS>> AND THEN WE’LL VISIT A ONE-OF-A-KIND PARK IN MALIBU. THE MAIN ATTRACTION, A RESTORED COTTAGE ONCE OWNED BY BARBRA STREISAND. YOU’LL SEE THE PLACES THAT AREN’T PART OF THE REGULAR PUBLIC TOUR.

PLUS, AUTHOR TAMMY BRUCE ON “THE DEATH OF RIGHT AND WRONG”.

IT’S ALL NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

JESS>> GOOD EVENING, I’M JESS MARLOW. VAL HAS THE NIGHT OFF.

ON THIS GOOD FRIDAY, THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS STILL TRYING TO ATONE FOR THE PAST SINS OF A FEW WAYWARD PRIESTS, BUT IS THE CHURCH TELLING ALL IT KNOWS ABOUT ITS SEXUAL PREDATORS? TONIGHT YOU’LL MEET A MAN WHO ANSWERS THAT QUESTION WITH A RESOUNDING NO. AS PHILIP BRUCE REPORTS, HE’S A COP WHO’S BEEN WALKING A NEW BEAT THIS WEEK, RIGHT OUTSIDE CARDINAL ROGER MAHONY’S WINDOW.

PHILIP BRUCE>> THE ARCHDIOCESE OF LOS ANGELES IS SPENDING ITS FIRST HOLY WEEK AT HOME IN THE NEW CATHEDRAL, BUT THE VISITORS OUT FRONT ARE A REMINDER OF WHY THE CARDINAL MAY HAVE NO CAUSE TO CELEBRATE. HE IS THEIR TARGET AND THEY’VE BEEN HERE ALL WEEK LONG PROTESTING WHAT THEY SAY IS CARDINAL ROGER MAHONY’S REFUSAL TO OPEN THE CHURCH’S RECORDS ON PREDATOR PRIESTS.

LEADING THE VIGIL IS AN OXNARD POLICE OFFICER AND FORMER MARINE. MANUEL VEGA SAYS A PARISH PRIEST REPEATEDLY MOLESTED HIM STARTING WHEN VEGA WAS IN THE SIXTH GRADE AND AN ALTAR BOY. HE CLAIMS, AT ONE POINT, THE PRIEST WHO WAS AN ACCOMPLISHED ARTIST ASKED HIM TO POSE NUDE FOR A PAINTING AND MOVED HIM INTO DIFFERENT POSES.

MANUAL VEGA>> HE WENT AS FAR AS ONCE AGAIN MOVING ME AROUND THE GROIN AREA TO THE POINT WHERE HE PUT HIS FINGER IN MY ANUS. THAT REALLY ALARMED ME. IT DISTURBED ME.

PHILIP BRUCE>> BUT LIKE SO MANY OTHERS, THE YOUNG MANUEL VEGA KEPT SILENT.

MANUEL VEGA>> IN THE LATINO COMMUNITY, THE CHURCH HAS WHAT I CALL AN ABSOLUTE POWER. WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT IN NO WAY WOULD I EVER THINK WHAT HE DID TO ME WAS WRONG. I MEAN, THE COMPREHENSION WAS NOT EVEN THERE.

PHILIP BRUCE>> TODAY THE VENTURA COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY HAS FILED A CRIMINAL CASE AGAINST THE PRIEST WHO’S THOUGHT TO BE IN MEXICO, AND VEGA IS THE LEAD PLAINTIFF IN A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT AGAINST THE CHURCH. THIS VIGIL OUTSIDE THE CATHEDRAL, HE SAYS, IS A WAY OF TRYING TO LIFT THE LID ON OTHER PREDATORS WHOSE NAMES AND MISDEEDS ARE STILL LOCKED AWAY INSIDE SECRET CHURCH FILES.

MANUEL VEGA>> WELL, MY CURRENT CONCERNS RIGHT NOW ARE THAT THERE ARE DOCUMENTS ON PRIESTS WHO HAD PROBLEMS IN THE PAST THAT ARE BEING KEPT BY THE CHURCH AND ARE BEING KEPT AWAY FROM PROSECUTORS AND POLICE INVESTIGATORS.

PHILIP BRUCE>> THE SPOKESMAN FOR L.A.’S ARCHDIOCESE SAYS CARDINAL MAHONY IS COOPERATING FULLY WITH THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND HAS RELEASED THE DOCUMENTS, BUT TOD TAMBERG SAYS THE CHURCH IS STILL TRYING TO RESPECT CERTAIN PROMISES OF PRIVACY.

TOD TAMBERG>> THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY HAS ALL OF THE DOCUMENTS AND ALL OF THE FILES, BUT THEY’RE UNDER SEAL PENDING A JUDGE’S RULING AS TO WHICH DOCUMENTS ARE ABLE TO BE UNSEALED THAT DON’T VIOLATE THE ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE AND THE PASTORAL PRIVILEGE THAT WE’RE ASSERTING IN SOME OF THESE CASES AND SOME OF THE DOCUMENTS.

PHILIP BRUCE>> ATTORNEY RAYMOND BUSHAY, WHO REPRESENTS VEGA AND SCORES OF OTHER ALLEGED VICTIMS, CLAIMS THE CHURCH ISN’T BEING CANDID AND THAT MANY DOCUMENTS STILL HAVEN’T BEEN RELEASED.

RAYMOND BUSHAY>> BUT, MORE THAN ANYTHING, THEY’RE RAISING A NEW PRIVILEGE THAT THEY’VE CREATED CALLED THE FORMATION PRIVILEGE TO TRY TO HIDE BEHIND THAT PRIVILEGE AND KEEP US AND THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY’S OFFICE, FOR THAT MATTER, FROM GETTING ACCESS TO WHAT WE THINK IS PROBABLY A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF DOCUMENTS THAT GO TO THE HEART OF THE CHURCH’S KNOWLEDGE AND ITS PARTICIPATION IN THIS, YOU KNOW, PROBLEM.

PHILIP BRUCE>> THE CHURCH SPOKESMAN, TOD TAMBERG, SAYS THE PROTESTORS HAVE THE WRONG IDEA, BUT NO ONE IS TRYING TO KEEP THEM AWAY FROM THE CATHEDRAL.

TOD TAMBERG>> THESE ARE FOLKS WHO, I THINK, WE CONTINUE TO NEED TO REACH OUT TO AS A CHURCH WITH THE KIND OF LOVE AND COMPASSION THAT WE SHOULD BE OFFERING TO THEM AND WE’RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO DO THAT.

PHILIP BRUCE>> VEGA SAYS THE CHURCH MAY DISAGREE WITH THEIR PROTESTS, BUT CARDINAL MAHONY HAS COME BY TO VISIT THEM SEVERAL TIMES.

MANUEL VEGA>> WHEN HE CAME DOWN, HE GAVE ME A ROSARY THAT JOHN PAUL II HAD GIVEN HIM, WHICH IS FINE, BUT INSTEAD OF THE ROSARY, I WOULD MUCH RATHER HAVE THE DOCUMENTS THAT HE’S HOLDING AND THE TRUTH.

PHILIP BRUCE>> VEGA HAS BEEN HERE DAY AND NIGHT FOR THE PAST WEEK. HE’S GETTING VERY LITTLE SLEEP IN HIS SIDEWALK CHAIR AND HE’S FASTING. ONE SUPPORTER HAS BEEN WITH HIM FROM THE START WHILE OTHERS COME AND GO. ON THIS NIGHT, VEGA’S FATHER AND WIFE HAVE BOTH JOINED HIM. ONLY OVER THE PAST YEAR HAS HE STARTED TALKING IN PUBLIC ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM. IN THE MONTHS LEADING UP TO THAT, HE MET WITH A NUMBER OF OTHER FORMER ALTAR BOYS FROM HIS OLD PARISH AND THEY HAD STORIES SIMILAR TO HIS.

MANUAL VEGA>> I MEAN, WE’RE ANGRY. WE’RE DEVASTATED BY THIS WHOLE REVELATION THAT, YOU KNOW, IT JUST WASN’T MYSELF. IT WAS ALL OF US AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT A MONSTROUS AND HIDEOUS THING TO DO.

PHILIP BRUCE>> VEGA WAS PART OF THE SUCCESSFUL EFFORT IN SACRAMENTO TO TEMPORARILY EXTEND THE STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS IN CIVIL SEX ABUSE CASES. HE SAYS HE’LL NEVER FORGET THE MOMENTS BEFORE HE TESTIFIED.

MANUEL VEGA>> THE ANXIETY LEVEL WAS INCREDIBLE. WHEN I FINALLY WENT FORWARD, IT MUST HAVE BEEN LIKE A QUICK FIVE MINUTES OR SOMETHING (LAUGHTER), BUT IT SEEMED AN ETERNITY.

PHILIP BRUCE>> RIGHT NOW, HE CAN’T BRING HIMSELF TO GO TO CHURCH, BUT MANUEL VEGA SAYS HE’LL ALWAYS BE A CATHOLIC.

MANUEL VEGA>> I WAS BORN A CATHOLIC, I’LL DIE A CATHOLIC. I’M HERE, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO MAKE THINGS RIGHT. I’M JUST ONE PERSON, BUT I THINK I CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

JESS>> JOINING US NOW IS ARTHUR JONES. HE IS EDITOR AT LARGE WITH THE NATIONAL CATHOLIC REPORTER. YOU’VE DEALT WITH THIS ISSUE FOR A LONG TIME. WHEN IS IT GOING TO END?

ARTHUR JONES>> NO ONE KNOWS. IT COULD BE ANOTHER DECADE AS IT UNFOLDS. WE CAN’T TELL AND WE CAN’T TELL UNTIL, FOR EXAMPLE, FILES ARE RELEASED. OTHER PEOPLE ARE OUT THERE WHO HAVE BEEN ACCUSED ONCE, BUT BECAUSE THERE’S NO CORROBORATIVE EVIDENCE, ARE STILL IN OFFICE AND WILL THE FILES SHOW OR NOT SHOW THAT THEY’VE BEEN ACCUSED ELSEWHERE BY OTHERS?

JESS>> HOW BADLY HAS THE CHURCH BEEN DAMAGED?

ARTHUR JONES>> OH, PERMANENTLY. I THINK IT’S BEEN STAINED AND TARRED. IT WILL BE VERY DIFFICULT FOR IT TO SHAKE THIS OFF HISTORICALLY. THERE’S AN INJURY HERE TO REPUTATION AND INTEGRITY. IT’S ALMOST AS IF ONE MORE INSTITUTION HAS TAKEN A SEVERE BLOW IN THE SOCIETY.

JESS>> IS CARDINAL MAHONY AN APPROPRIATE TARGET?

ARTHUR JONES>> IT’S VERY HARD TO SAY. I MEAN, PART OF THE STUFF GOING AROUND IS THAT, YOU KNOW, IS MAHONY NEXT AFTER CARDINAL LAW? THE LONGER HE HOLDS ONTO THE DOCUMENTS, THE MORE HE GIVES CREDENCE THAT THERE’S SOMETHING TO HIDE. AT THE SAME TIME, THE DOCUMENTS ARE RATHER INTERESTING BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF PRIESTS WHO HAVE NO CONNECTION TO SEX ABUSE WHO WOULD PREFER THAT ALL OF THE DOCUMENTS ON THE CLERICS NOT BE RELEASED. THEY MAY HAVE HAD NERVOUS BREAKDOWNS OR WHATEVER, SO THERE’S A GREAT SENSITIVITY. BUT TO GET THIS OUT OF THE WAY, THEY’LL HAVE TO BE RELEASED.

JESS>> WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT RIGHTS, THE RIGHT OF PASTORAL PRIVILEGE. WHERE DOES THIS COME INTO PLAY?

ARTHUR JONES>> WELL, IT’S A VERY TRICKY ONE, AS I SEE IT, BECAUSE THE ARGUMENT IS THAT CONFIDENTIALITY BETWEEN THE PRIEST AND THE BISHOP IS TO BE PROTECTED BECAUSE IT’S DOING SOMETHING FOR FORMATION. YET IF WE LOOK AT THE MICHAEL BAKER CASE, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT PRIVILEGE DIDN’T STOP BAKER FROM ALLEGEDLY GOING OUT AND ABUSING OTHERS OR AT LEAST BEING ALLOWED TO GO INTO OTHER PARISHES. I DON’T THINK THERE WAS ANY ACCUSATION OF ABUSE AFTER PERHAPS 1985, BUT IT’S A QUESTION OF WHAT DO YOU DO WITH PRIVILEGE? HAVE YOU ACTUALLY CORRECTED ANYTHING? THERE’S NO PROOF OF THAT.

JESS>> THERE ARE THOSE WHO WOULD SUGGEST THAT THE RELUCTANCE TO RELEASE ALL THE DOCUMENTS IS VERY MUCH AKIN TO THE MOTIVATION BEHIND TRANSFERRING A PRIEST OUT OF A PARISH WHERE HE HAD BEEN GUILTY OF THIS SORT OF ACTIVITY AND, TO DO SO, NOT TO PROTECT THE PRIEST SO MUCH BUT TO PROTECT THE CHURCH.

ARTHUR JONES>> I THINK THAT’S TRUE. THIS IS AN INSTITUTION LIKE ALL OTHERS. IT THINKS OF ITSELF FIRST. I DON’T KNOW THAT PROTECTING THE PRIEST IS THE MAJOR THING WHEN YOU SEE HOW SUMMARILY SOME OF THEM HAVE BEEN PUSHED OUT ON A RUMOR AROUND THE COUNTRY OR A MINOR ALLEGATION.

JESS>> THERE IS THE CONCERN ABOUT THOSE WHO CLAIM TO HAVE BEEN OBJECTS OF THIS ABUSE SEEKING COMPENSATION.

ARTHUR JONES>> THERE IS. I WAS INTERESTED IN THE REMARKS I HEARD FROM ONE OF THE DETECTIVES IN THE LAPD WHO DEALS WITH JUVENILE SEX ABUSE. HE SAID, OF THE 112 OR 114 CASES HE’S FAMILIAR WITH, HE COULD ONLY REALLY SEE TWO WHO WERE IN IT FOR A FINANCIAL MOTIVE. THE REST WANTED AN APOLOGY, THEY WANTED IT OUT IN THE OPEN AND THEY WANTED THE CHANGE TO COME FROM THE CHURCH.

JESS>> THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT, AS YOU SUGGEST, WE DON’T KNOW WHEN IT WILL END, BUT IT SEEMS TO BE ENDURING.

ARTHUR JONES>> WE CAN’T KNOW.

JESS>> OUR THANKS TO ARTHUR JONES OF THE NATIONAL CATHOLIC REPORTERS.

MONDAY ON LIFE AND TIMES, WE’LL LOOK AT THE GOVERNMENT’S EFFORTS TO STAMP OUT NEWCASTLE’S DISEASE. IT IS A PLAGUE THAT MAY EFFECT MILLIONS OF BIRDS, BUT ARE AUTHORITIES GOING TOO FAR TO TRY TO STOP THE EPIDEMIC?

>> THEY LIQUIDATED WHOLE FLOCKS LIKE THOSE BEHIND ME JUST ON THE FACT THAT THEY WERE EXPOSED, MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, I KNOW. IN THE 70’S, IT WAS THIRTEEN MILLION BIRDS, SO I’M TALKING A LOT OF MONEY.

JESS>> OUR NEXT GUEST IS OPENLY GAY, YET SHE’S VERY CRITICAL OF WHAT SHE CALLS AMERICA’S GAY ELITE. SHE’S ALSO A FORMER FEMINIST LEADER WHO ACCUSES FEMINIST ACTIVISTS OF TRYING TO PROTECT A MOTHER WHO IS A CONFESSED MURDERER. TAMMY BRUCE IS NEVER FEARFUL OF STIRRING THINGS UP BY SAYING WHAT SHE THINKS AND SHE’S DOING IT AGAIN IN A NEW BOOK CALLED “THE DEATH OF RIGHT AND WRONG: EXPOSING THE LEFT’S ASSAULT ON OUR CULTURAL AND VALUES”. TAMMY BRUCE JOINS US NOW TO EXPLAIN HERSELF.

TAMMY BRUCE>> YES, INDEED.

JESS>> WELCOME.

TAMMY BRUCE>> NICE TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

JESS>> THE RIGHT AND WRONG HAVE BEEN CONFUSED, IT SEEMS, IN OUR MODERN SOCIETY.

TAMMY BRUCE>> IT HAS. MORAL RELATIVISM HAS REALLY BECOME ENTRENCHED. IT IS AN ISSUE OF THE LEFT, AS I’VE SEEN FROM WHERE REALLY I HAIL, HAVING BEEN A FORMER PRESIDENT OF N.O.W. HERE IN LOS ANGELES, THAT THERE’S AN INVESTMENT IN PEOPLE NOT BEING ABLE TO COME TO JUDGMENT ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE, OTHER CULTURES, OTHER GROUPS AND IT’S KEPT US FROM BEING ABLE TO COME TO DECISIONS ABOUT WHAT’S RIGHT AND WRONG, PROTECTING OUR CHILDREN. I’M NOT TALKING ABOUT RELIGIOUS PRECEPTS OF MORALITY, BUT THE FACT THAT THE LEFT HAS NOW VIEWED THE WORDS MORALITY AND DECENCY AS SOME KIND OF CODE WORD FOR OPPRESSORS. I THINK WE CAN TAKE THOSE WORDS BACK AND REALIZE THAT WE CAN LIVE WITH DIGNITY AND HAVE IT NOT BE ABOUT CONSERVATIVE POLITICS OR RELIGIOUS POLITICS.

JESS>> THERE ARE THOSE WHO ARE STILL SOMEWHAT SHOCKED TO SEE THIS KIND OF PHILOSOPHY BEING ESPOUSED BY TAMMY BRUCE, WHO ACKNOWLEDGES BEING A LESBIAN, A LIBERAL, A FEMINIST --

TAMMY BRUCE>> -- CAN YOU IMAGINE? BUT SEE, THAT’S THE WHOLE POINT. THIS IS CLASSICAL LIBERAL PHILOSOPHY. I DON’T KNOW WHEN NOT BEING ABLE TO DETERMINE RIGHT FROM WRONG AND MORAL RELATIVISM BECAME A FOUNDATION OF LIBERAL PRINCIPLES. WE ARE THE CADRE OF PEOPLE WHO WANT TO HELP THE DOWNTRODDEN, THE PEOPLE PERHAPS WHO CAN’T HELP THEMSELVES, MAKING THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE, AND THAT TAKES JUDGMENT. IT TAKES JUDGMENT ABOUT PLACES LIKE IRAQ. IT TAKES JUDGMENT ABOUT CONDEMNING THINGS LIKE SEX WITH CHILDREN. IT REALLY TAKES JUDGMENT AND THE MORAL RELATIVISM NOW THAT HAS SEEPED THROUGH THE LEFT COMES FROM A MARXISM WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH AMERICAN CLASSICAL LIBERALISM.

JESS>> YOU IDENTIFY ELITISTS AS THE ENEMY, IN EFFECT, IN YOUR BOOK. YOU TALK ABOUT THE GAY ELITE. WHO ARE THEY?

TAMMY BRUCE>> WELL, I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE KNEW THAT THIS WASN’T ABOUT LIBERALS, OF WHICH I AM ONE, BUT IT’S A VERY FEW NUMBER OF PEOPLE, HEADS OF GAY CIVIL RIGHTS GROUPS, BLACK POWER GROUPS, THE FEMINIST ESTABLISHMENT, WHO ARE CHANGING SOCIETY TO THEIR WORLD VIEW AND MOST LIBERALS NOW DON’T LIKE WHAT IT IS THEY’RE SEEING.

WHEN I TALK ABOUT THE GAY ELITE, I MEAN THE LEADERSHIP OF GROUPS LIKE GLAAD. I’M TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE LIKE SHEILA KUEHL, INDIVIDUALS WHO CREATE LEGISLATION. IT’S NOT JUST THE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE PUBLIC EYE SO MUCH, LIKE JOAN GARRY OR CATHY RENNA OF THE GAY AND LESBIAN ALLIANCE AGAINST DEFAMATION. IT’S HOMOSEXUAL ACADEMICS LIKE JUDITH LEVINE WHO WROTE A BOOK CALLED “HARMFUL TO MINORS” WHICH ADVOCATES THE SEXUALIZATION OF CHILDREN.

JESS>> DENYING SEX TO CHILDREN IS WRONG THEN, HUH?

TAMMY BRUCE>> YES, AND THE EUPHEMISM OF CHILD-ADULT SEX HAS MOVED IN TO THE PUBLIC DEBATE, WHICH DOESN’T EXIST. CHILDREN CANNOT HAVE SEX AND IT’S NOT ABOUT SEX, ANY MORE THAN RAPE IS ABOUT SEX, BUT WE SEE THESE ACADEMICS OF MOVING THIS LINE AND POLITICAL CORRECTNESS KEEPS THE AVERAGE PERSON FROM BEING ABLE TO SAY, WAIT A MINUTE, I DON’T AGREE WITH THAT AND THAT’S WRONG.

JESS>> ANOTHER ELITE YOU NOTE IS THE HOLLYWOOD ELITE.

TAMMY BRUCE>> INDEED. YOU KNOW, WE’VE SEEN THEIR ATTITUDES DURING THE IRAQ WAR AND I WARNED, IN “THE NEW THOUGHT POLICE”, MY FIRST BOOK, THAT THEIR ATTACKS ON PEOPLE LIKE DR. LAURA. SUSAN SARANDON, IN FACT, WORKED WITH GLAAD IN THEIR ATTACK ON DR. LAURA FOR USING AN UNAPPROVED-OF WORD AND NOW MS. SARANDON IS FINDING THAT THE LEFT-WING SETUP OF A POLITICAL DEBATE THAT SAYS YOU CAN DESTROY SOMEONE YOU DISAGREE WITH, SHE NOW SHOULDN’T BE SURPRISED THAT SHE HAS BEEN LABELED AND HAS SEEN THE BACKLASH, BUT SHE IS PARTLY RESPONSIBLE.

JESS>> SHE’S BEING LABELED AS UNPATRIOTIC FOR NOT SUPPORTING THE WAR?

TAMMY BRUCE>> EXACTLY, AND I WARNED THE LEFT IN THAT BOOK AND IN CONVERSATION WITH YOU THAT THE TABLE OF POWER WILL TURN. THE LEFT IS SETTING UP A STRUCTURE THAT WILL BE USED AGAINST US WHEN WE DISSENT AND THAT IS THE ANTITHESIS OF LIBERAL POLITICS AND DISCUSSION. MS. SARANDON AND MR. ROBBINS SHOULDN’T BE SURPRISED AND THEY’RE HYPOCRITES FOR BEING SURPRISED AND FOR SETTING UP THE STRUCTURE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

JESS>> IT’S INTERESTING, AGAIN, TO GO BACK TO THE TAMMY BRUCE THAT WE’VE KNOWN FOR SOME YEARS.

TAMMY BRUCE>> I’M THE SAME PERSON, JESS, I MUST SAY.

JESS>> THE SAME PERSON, BUT TO FIND AN ENDORSEMENT BY LAURA SCHLESINGER AND G. GORDON LIDDY?

TAMMY BRUCE>> ISN’T IT FASCINATING THAT I’M ESPOUSING CLASSICAL LIBERAL PHILOSOPHIES ABOUT INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY AND RESPONSIBILITY AND NO ONE ON THE LEFT IS WILLING TO EMBRACE IT, PEOPLE WHO ARE THE ELITE ON THE LEFT, AND THAT SAYS VOLUMES. A BOOK ABOUT MORALITY AND DECENCY IN THE MOST BASIC WAYS OF COMMON SENSE IS TOO HOT FOR ANYONE ON THE LEFT TO ENDORSE.

JESS>> IN EFFECT, YOUR DEFINITION OF ELITE IS PRETTY MUCH AN EXTREMIST ELEMENT OF THESE MOVEMENTS, SOME OF WHICH YOU’VE BEEN INTIMATELY INVOLVED WITH.

TAMMY BRUCE>> WELL, EXACTLY, AND THAT’S WHERE THE KNOWLEDGE COMES FROM. THE ACTIVISTS, THE AVERAGE PERSON WHO IDENTIFIES AS LIBERAL OR GAY, DECENT PEOPLE. YOU’VE GOT VERY FEW PEOPLE AT THE TOP. I TERM THEM MALIGNANT NARCISSISTS. THE MOST DAMAGED NATURALLY RISE TO THE TOP AND THEN, AS A RESULT, PROJECT THEIR OWN ISSUES ONTO SOCIETY, SO YOU’RE SEEING VERY FEW PEOPLE DEFINING THIS AT THE EXPENSE OF EVERYONE ELSE WHO’S HAD AN INVESTMENT IN LIBERALISM AND IN DECENCY IN THIS COUNTRY ACROSS THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM.

JESS>> IN YOUR PREFACE OF THE BOOK, “THE DEATH OF RIGHT AND WRONG”, YOU REVEAL AN INTIMATE -- I GUESS IT WASN’T A SECRET, BUT IT WASN’T PUBLICLY KNOWN --

TAMMY BRUCE>> -- IT WAS A SECRET. MY FIRST LESBIAN RELATIONSHIP WITH THE ACTRESS BRENDA BONET, AT THE TIME ONE OF THE STARS OF “DAYS OF OUR LIVES”, KILLED HERSELF IN 1982. I FOUND THE BODY AND I DISCUSSED THAT IN THE BEGINNING BECAUSE IT SETS UP -- THE BIGGEST QUESTION THEY ASK ME IS WHY DOES THE LEFT DO WHAT IT DOES? THAT MAKES NO SENSE. I DESCRIBE ISSUES OF DAMAGE AND VIOLENCE, THE LACK OF TAKING CARE OF THAT EMOTIONALLY, AND HOW IT’S REFLECTED AND HOW WE INTERACT WITH SOCIETY AS LEADERS OF THE LEFT WING.

JESS>> IT’S AN INTERESTING AND CERTAINLY A PROVOCATIVE BOOK.

TAMMY BRUCE>> THANK YOU, SIR.

JESS>> TAMMY BRUCE, WE THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. THE BOOK IS “THE DEATH OF RIGHT AND WRONG: EXPOSING THE LEFT’S ASSAULT ON OUR CULTURE AND VALUES”.

TO SEND A COMMENT OR A QUESTION TO OUR PROGRAM, YOU CAN REACH US BY MAIL AT THIS ADDRESS:

LIFE AND TIMES
4401 SUNSET BLVD.
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90027

YOU CAN ALSO CALL OUR VIEWER COMMENT LINE (323) 953-5555) OR CONTACT US THE FAST WAY BY E-MAIL AT KCET.ORG.

JESS>> TONIGHT WE’RE ABOUT TO TAKE A PEEK INSIDE BARBRA STREISAND’S BEDROOM (LAUGHTER). DON’T WORRY, YOU HAVEN’T ACCIDENTALLY TUNED INTO “ACCESS HOLLYWOOD”. THE HOUSE WE’RE ABOUT TO VISIT USED TO BELONG TO BARBRA STREISAND. IT’S NOW PART OF A VERY SPECIAL PUBLIC PARK IN MALIBU’S RAMIREZ CANYON. BEFORE SHE WENT ON VACATION, VAL ZAVALA TOOK THE TOUR AND SHE TELLS US IT’S WORTH THE EFFORT TO GET THERE.

VAL ZAVALA>> WIND DOWN A NARROW CANYON ROAD OFF OF PCH -- NO HONKING, PLEASE, THE NEIGHBORS DON’T LIKE NOISE -- AND IN A MILE OR TWO, YOU’LL ENTER RAMIREZ CANYON PARK. IT’S MORE THAN A PARK. IT’S A TWENTY-TWO ACRE COMPOUND THAT USED TO BELONG TO BARBRA STREISAND AND HER THEN HUSBAND, STUDIO CHIEF JON PETERS. DRIVE THROUGH THE GATES AND YOU’LL FEEL LIKE YOU’RE IN A STORYBOOK.

IT ALL STARTED ON VALENTINE’S DAY BACK IN 1974. THAT’S WHEN STREISAND AND PETERS BOUGHT THIS HOME. WELL, IT DIDN’T LOOK LIKE THIS. IT WAS A DULL LITTLE STUCCO HOUSE THAT THEY RENOVATED - SLIGHTLY. THEY DUBBED THIS HOME “THE BARN” AND IT WAS STREISAND’S FAVORITE. OVER THE NEXT THREE YEARS, AS ADJACENT PROPERTIES BECAME AVAILABLE, STREISAND SNAPPED THEM UP. BUT WITHOUT A DOUBT, THE CROWN JEWEL OF THE PARK IS THIS: THE DECO HOUSE. I GOT A TOUR FROM OUTREACH COORDINATOR, JOAN PANKRANTZ.

JOAN PANKRANTZ>> THIS IS THE ONLY POOL ON THE PROPERTY. IT’S A BLACK-BOTTOM POOL.

VAL ZAVALA>> IT’S GORGEOUS.

JOAN PANKRANTZ>> ISN’T THAT GORGEOUS? THIS FURNITURE HERE IS ORIGINAL, LEFT BY MS. STREISAND. YOU WILL NOTICE ACROSS THE TOP THERE, THAT DESIGN. THAT WAS TAKEN FROM PANELS FROM THE ATLANTIC-RICHFIELD BUILDING WHICH WAS GOING TO BE DEMOLISHED IN 1968. IT WAS AN ART DECO BUILDING AND MS. STREISAND GOT THOSE PANELS AND, FROM THOSE PANELS, GOT THE DESIGN YOU SEE THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE HOUSE.

[FILM CLIP]

JOAN PANKRANTZ>> THIS IS ORIGINAL, THIS BEAUTIFUL TABLE. THE CHANDELIER IS ORIGINAL. ISN’T THAT GORGEOUS? AND IN ART DECO, YOU SEE A LOT OF STEP DESIGNS. YOU’RE GOING TO SEE IT THROUGHOUT THE HOUSE LIKE THIS DOORWAY HERE INTO THE DINING ROOM, THE STEP DESIGN? EVEN THE CHANDELIER. THE DETAIL ON THE CEILING HERE IS IN THE STEP DESIGN. AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE UPHOLSTERED WALLS OF THE DINING ROOM. WE’RE IN A TILE ROOM. THESE ARE UPHOLSTERED, SO THAT HELPS WITH THE ACOUSTICS AND ALSO, AS YOU LOOK AT THE WALL COVERING, YOU SEE THAT SAME DESIGN THROUGHOUT THE FABRIC.

VAL ZAVALA>> STREISAND EVEN TILED THE FLOOR TO MATCH THE RUG SO THAT, WHEN THE RUG WAS SENT OUT FOR CLEANING, THE DESIGN WOULD REMAIN IN THE TILE.

[FILM CLIP]

VAL ZAVALA>> NOW THIS IS THE FORMAL ENTRANCE RIGHT HERE?

JOAN PANKRANTZ>> YES, IT IS. YES, IT IS.

VAL ZAVALA>> NOW THIS IS WHAT YOU SEE WHEN YOU FIRST WALK IN? THIS IS BEAUTIFUL.

JOAN PANKRANTZ>> WHEN YOU FIRST WALK IN, THIS IS WHAT YOU SEE, YES.

VAL ZAVALA>> AND IT’S THE LARGEST HOME, YOU SAY, ON THE PROPERTY?

JOAN PANKRANTZ>> IT’S THE LARGEST HOME ON THE PROPERTY. IT’S OVER FOUR THOUSAND SQUARE FEET.

VAL ZAVALA>> THE ONLY COLORS ALLOWED IN THE HOUSE WERE BURGUNDY, GRAY, BLACK AND ROSE. EVEN THE CANDY WRAPPERS HAD TO MATCH.

[FILM CLIP]

JOAN PANKRANTZ>> THIS IS THE MASTER BEDROOM AND I LOVE TO BRING PEOPLE IN HERE. THIS IS NOT PART OF THE TOUR REGULARLY BECAUSE I LOVE TO SEE THEIR EXPRESSIONS. IT’S INCREDIBLE.

VAL ZAVALA>> SHE LIKES -- WHAT IS THIS COLOR? PINK? MAUVE? BURGUNDY?

JOAN PANKRANTZ>> OH, I DON’T KNOW. IT’S A PINK.

VAL ZAVALA>> BUT SHE NEVER STAYED HERE?

JOAN PANKRANTZ>> NOT THAT WE KNOW OF. I DON’T KNOW, I DON’T KNOW.

VAL ZAVALA>> MAYBE SHE SNEAKED IN FOR A NIGHT (LAUGHTER).

JOAN PANKRANTZ>> (LAUGHTER) MAYBE. EVERYTHING IS AUTOMATIC, STATE OF THE ART.

VAL ZAVALA>> YES, THAT CEILING ALONE.

[FILM CLIP]

JOAN PANKRANTZ>> I HAVE TO TELL YOU, VAL, THAT IN THE 1920’S, THAT’S WHEN THE OCEAN LINERS STARTED AND YOU REALLY GET A NAUTICAL FEELING HERE. YOU LOOK AT THE PORTHOLE WINDOWS --

VAL ZAVALA>> -- YES, YOU DO.

JOAN PANKRANTZ>> -- AND THE SKYLIGHTS.

VAL ZAVALA>> UNBELIEVABLE.

JOAN PANKRANTZ>> AND THIS IS ALL HAND-PAINTED. THIS ISN’T WALLPAPER. I THOUGHT AT ONE POINT THAT WAS WALLPAPER, BUT THAT HAS ALL BEEN HAND-PAINTED ON THERE.

[FILM CLIP]

VAL ZAVALA>> THIS IS WHAT REPORTERS DO WHEN THE TOUR GUIDE’S NOT AROUND. BUT FOR STREISAND, A COLLECTION IS LIKE A MOVIE. ONCE IT’S DONE, IT’S DONE AND SHE MOVED ON TO OTHER INTERESTS. SHE AUCTIONED OFF HER ART DECO COLLECTION IN 1994 FOR MORE THAN SIX MILLION DOLLARS. AS FOR THE PROPERTY, SHE DONATED IT TO THE STATE IN 1993. NOW IT’S RUN BY THE MOUNTAINS RECREATION CONSERVATION AUTHORITY WHO MUST KEEP IT SELF-SUSTAINING AND OPEN TO THE PUBLIC. TODAY A GROUP OF SENIORS FROM THE CAPRI RETIREMENT HOME IN NEWHALL HAS MADE THE ONE-HOUR BUS TRIP TO RAMIREZ CANYON PARK.

TAMAR FREEMAN>> HELLO, I’M TAMAR. WELCOME. THIS OUTING THAT WE’RE ENJOYING HERE IS PART OF OUR SENIOR OUTREACH PROGRAM AND IT’S MADE AVAILABLE TO PEOPLE WHO WOULD OTHERWISE NOT HAVE ACCESS TO THIS BEAUTIFUL, BEAUTIFUL BALANCE OF NATURE.

>> IT’S SO RELAXING. THE MINUTE WE GOT HERE, I JUST PRACTICALLY OOZED RELAXATION. I THINK IT’S A WONDERFUL PLACE TO LIVE.

>> IT’S BEAUTIFUL, THE PATIO IS GORGEOUS, OUR LUNCH WAS DELICIOUS AND THE FRESH AIR AND THE SUNSHINE WAS JUST IMPOSSIBLE TO DESCRIBE.

>> IT REMINDS ME A LITTLE BIT OF SOME OF THE ONES I SAW ON THE ISLANDS.

VAL ZAVALA>> WHAT ISLANDS ARE THOSE?

>> IN THE PACIFIC ISLANDS. THERE ARE MANY PACIFIC ISLANDS I WENT TO, GUAM, SAIPAN, ALL OF THEM DURING THE WAR.

VAL ZAVALA>> THE PARK IS ACCESSIBLE TO SENIORS AND TO THE DISABLED. THE MORE ADVENTUROUS OPT FOR A TOUR OF THE MEADOW.

JOAN PANKRANTZ>> THIS IS WHERE THE ONE-VOICE CONCERT WAS PERFORMED IN 1986 AND IT WAS A PBS SPECIAL. THERE WAS A FULL ORCHESTRA HERE, FIVE HUNDRED GUESTS, IT WAS A CATERED DINNER AND MONEY WAS RAISED FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. THAT WAS 1986.

VAL ZAVALA>> THE PARK HAS TO RAISE ITS OWN REVENUE, SO THEY HOST WEDDINGS, EVENTS AND SMALL MEETINGS TO GENERATE INCOME, BUT ON A DAY LIKE TODAY, WHAT THEY’RE REALLY GENERATING ARE MEMORIES. HOW DOES IT MAKE YOU FEEL TO SIT OUT HERE LIKE THIS?

>> PRETTY INDEPENDENT.

>> IT’S GORGEOUS. WHY DID SHE EVER LEAVE HERE? (LAUGHTER)

>> OUR HOSTS AND HOSTESSES WERE JUST WONDERFUL. HOPE TO COME BACK SOON.

JESS>> FOR MORE INFORMATION, CALL THE NUMBER ON YOUR SCREEN (310-589-2850) OR LOG ONTO WWW.SMNC.CA.GOV. WHEN YOU GET THERE, JUST CLICK ON PARK LISTINGS. YOU’LL FIND ALL THE LATEST INFORMATION ABOUT HOW TO TAKE THE TOUR. AND IN CASE YOU MISSED ALL THAT, AND I’LL BET YOU DID (LAUGHTER), DROP US A LINE AT KCET.ORG. WE’LL GET THE INFORMATION TO YOU.

NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, THANK YOU AND GOOD NIGHT.

LIFE AND TIMES WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

TO REACH US AT LIFE AND TIMES, CALL 323-953-5555. SEND US AN E-MAIL TO LIFEANDTIMES@KCET.ORG OR LOG ONTO OUR WEBSITE AT WWW.KCET.ORG TO SEND MESSAGES OR DOWNLOAD TRANSCRIPTS OF TONIGHT’S PROGRAM.