2/28/03

LC030228

VAL ZAVALA>> TONIGHT ON LIFE AND TIMES --

JESS MARLOW>> THE GOVERNMENT SAYS THEY ARE PRIME TARGETS FOR TERRORISM, SO WHY ISN’T MORE BEING DONE TO PROTECT THE PORTS OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA?

AMY ZEGART>> WE HAVE JUST SEEN THE PLACEMENT OF 45,000 AIRPORT SCREENERS, FEDERAL AIRPORT SCREENERS, AND YET IF YOU GO TO THE PORT OF LOS ANGELES ON A GIVEN DAY, A TYPICAL POLICE SHIFT HAS FIVE POLICE OFFICERS.

VAL>> AND THEN WE’LL FOCUS ON THE ARCHITECTURAL GENIUS BEHIND SOME OF L.A.’S MOST FAMOUS LANDMARKS. THEY WERE ALL BUILT BY BECKET.

JESS>> PLUS, A MIDDLE EAST SCHOLAR LOOKS AHEAD TO AMERICA’S ROLE IN IRAQ AFTER THE WAR.

VAL>> IT’S ALL STRAIGHT AHEAD ON TONIGHT’S LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> THE PORTS ARE ON THE LATEST LIST OF LIKELY TARGETS FOR A TERRORIST ATTACK.

JESS>> BUT AT ANY GIVEN TIME, ONLY A HANDFUL OF SECURITY OFFICERS ARE ON DUTY THERE. CHANGES HAVE BEEN MADE AT SEA WHERE THE COAST GUARD IS NOW RUNNING BEEFED-UP PATROLS, BUT AS GAY YEE TELLS US, THE BIGGEST SECURITY GAPS MAY BE ON LAND.

GAY YEE>> THE U.S. COAST GUARD SOUNDED THE ALARM AFTER UNDERCOVER AGENTS WENT INTO THE TERMINALS AT THE PORTS OF LOS ANGELES AND LONG BEACH.

CAPT. JOHN HOMES>> THEY WOULD GO OUT AND SIMPLY TRY TO GAIN ACCESS TO A FACILITY AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE FACILITY STOPS THEM, CHECKS THEIR ID CARDS, ASKS THEM WHAT THEY’RE DOING ON THE FACILITY.

GAY YEE>> THE REPORT CARD?

CAPT. JOHN HOLMES>> OCCASIONALLY WE WOULD FIND A GATE THAT THEY DIDN’T HAVE A GUARD AT OR SOMEBODY THAT FORGOT TO CHECK SOMEBODY’S ID CARD.

GAY YEE>> KFWB REPORTER, ERIN KOTECKI, SAYS SHE’S NOT SURPRISED. SHE DID SOME SECURITY CHECKS OF HER OWN IN AN INVESTIGATIVE REPORT THAT YIELDED FRIGHTENING RESULTS.

ERIN KOTECKI>> “AT NIGHT FROM A DECK OF A COAST GUARD AUXILIARY BOAT, I CAN SEE CRUISE SHIPS, CARGO SHIPS IN THE MAIN CHANNEL AND, IN THE INNER HARBOR, OIL TANKERS....”

ERIN KOTECKI>> I CAN GET IN EVERYWHERE, ALMOST EVERYWHERE. I CAN GET IN UNDER THE VINCENT THOMAS BRIDGE FROM THE SEASIDE USING JUST A RECREATIONAL BOAT, FISHERMAN OR SPORTING BOAT, WHATEVER YOU WANTED. YOU COULD GET UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL WITH THE OIL TANKERS, WITH THE TANK FARMS, WITH MANY OF THE COMBUSTIBLE THINGS DOWN AT THE PORT OF LOS ANGELES.

GAY YEE>> KOTECKI FOUND GAPING HOLES IN SECURITY AT WHICH SHOULD BE THE MOST CLOSELY GUARDED PORT IN THE NATION.

ERIN KOTECKI>> I WAS UNCHALLENGED AT AN OPEN GATE WHICH WAS ALMOST DIRECTLY UNDER THE VINCENT THOMAS BRIDGE AND LED DIRECTLY, IF I WOULD HAVE TRESPASSED AND WENT IN, WHICH I DIDN’T, BUT IT LED DIRECTLY TO ONE OF THE BASES OF THE BRIDGE. I WAS THERE UNCHALLENGED FOR HOURS.

GAY YEE>> KOTECKI SAYS PART OF THE PROBLEM IS MISCOMMUNICATION. SHE SAYS THERE ARE TOO MANY AGENCIES IN CHARGE OF DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF THE PORTS.

ERIN KOTECKI>> AND WE ACTUALLY HAD OFFICIALS TELLING US, WELL, WE TAKE CARE OF THE TOP OF THE BRIDGE, BUT WE DON’T TAKE CARE OF THE BOTTOM OF THE BRIDGE. AND THEY TAKE CARE OF THE WATER SIDE, BUT THEY DON’T TAKE CARE OF THE LAND SIDE.

AMY ZEGART>> IT DOESN’T SURPRISE ME. I THINK THAT PORT SECURITY IS SOMETHING THAT HAS NOT RECEIVED NEARLY AS MUCH ATTENTION OR RESOURCES FROM THE FEDERAL OR LOCAL GOVERNMENT AS IT SHOULD.

GAY YEE>> UCLA PROFESSOR AMY ZEGART IS WRITING A BOOK ON NATIONAL SECURITY AND TERRORISM. ASK HER WHAT KEEPS HER AWAKE AT NIGHT AND SEAPORTS RANK HIGH ON HER LIST.

AMY ZEGART>> WE HAVE JUST SEEN THE PLACEMENT OF 45,000 AIRPORT SCREENERS, FEDERAL AIRPORT SCREENERS, AND YET IF YOU GO TO THE PORT OF LOS ANGELES ON A GIVEN DAY, A TYPICAL POLICE SHIFT HAS FIVE POLICE OFFICERS AT THE PORT OF LOS ANGELES. EVERYONE IS WORRIED ABOUT THE AIRPORT, THE AIRPORT, THE AIRPORT, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE TOP OF THE LIST IN TERMS OF DISRUPTING AMERICAN ECONOMY, IN TERMS OF PROVIDING LONG-TERM DAMAGE TO THE UNITED STATES AND ACTUALLY PHYSICAL AND HUMAN DAMAGE AS WELL, KILLING A LOT OF PEOPLE, THE PORTS ARE CERTAINLY AT THE TOP OF THE LIST.

GAY YEE>> THE PORTS OF LOS ANGELES AND LONG BEACH HANDLE MORE THAN FORTY PERCENT OF THE GOODS SHIPPED TO THE UNITED STATES, EVERYTHING FROM TENNIS SHOES TO STEREOS. THE COAST GUARD SEA MARSHAL PROGRAM LETS OFFICERS BOARD SHIPS AT SEA TO MAKE SURE NO ONE IS ONBOARD WHO SHOULDN’T BE THERE AND IT BEEFS UP SECURITY THROUGHOUT THE PORT COMPLEX.

SO NOW THE COAST GUARD IS ISSUING AN ULTIMATUM, THREATENING SHIPS FROM DOCKING AT SOME TERMINALS UNLESS SECURITY IS IMPROVED. IN ESSENCE, SHUTTING THEM DOWN. IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR, TERMINAL OPERATORS AND SHIPPERS HAVE TO PICK UP THE TAB FOR THEIR OWN SECURITY, WHICH GETS EXPENSIVE. COAST GUARD CAPTAIN JOHN HOLMES SAYS MANY OPERATORS HAVE DONE A GOOD JOB AND HE BELIEVES THIS IS THE MOST VIGILANT PORT COMPLEX IN THE COUNTRY, BUT HE SAYS HE HAS NO CHOICE BUT TO TAKE A HARD LINE.

CAPT. JOHN HOLMES>> AND IT’S NOT A PUNITIVE THING. IT’S SIMPLY AN ISSUE OF SECURITY. IF I HAVE A FACILITY THAT LETS PEOPLE IN AND DOESN’T CHECK ID CARDS AND I DON’T KNOW WHO’S ON THAT FACILITY, I’M NOT DOING MY JOB IF I LET THEM BRING A SHIP IN. I DON’T THINK YOU’RE EVER GOING TO GET A HUNDRED PERCENT, BUT IF YOU CAN GET 99.8 PERCENT, THAT’S PRETTY DARN GOOD. WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT AND WHAT WE’RE DOING IS DETERRING PEOPLE FROM WANTING TO DO BAD THINGS.

JESS>> GAY JOINS US NOW. IT’S CLEAR FROM YOUR REPORT AND OTHER REPORTS THAT SECURITY FOR THE PORT OF LOS ANGELES-LONG BEACH IS INADEQUATE. WHAT WOULD IT COST TO BRING IT UP TO ADEQUACY?

GAY YEE>> WELL, THE FIGURES FOR NATIONWIDE, ALL OF PORTS, IS $6 BILLION DOLLARS AND PART OF THE PROBLEM RIGHT NOW IS THE FACT THAT MUCH OF THE RESPONSIBILITY IS BEING PUT TO THE PORT OPERATORS AND ALSO THE PRIVATE BUSINESSES AND THEY SAY WE DON’T HAVE IT, SO WHERE IS THAT MONEY COMING FROM? THAT IS THE PRIMARY QUESTION AT THIS POINT. WE ALL BELIEVE THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE SECURITY, BUT WHO’S GOING TO PAY FOR IT?

VAL>> NOW THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS PROMISED CITIES A BIG CHUNK OF MONEY TO FIGHT TERRORISM AND TO BEEF UP SECURITY. IS ANY OF THAT MONEY AIMED AT THE PORT OR IS THE PORT ON ITS OWN?

GAY YEE>> I BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT ARE COMING INTO PLACE IN THE PORT OF LONG BEACH AND LOS ANGELES. SECURITY CAMERAS, THERE’S TALK OF CREDENTIAL CHECKS. NOW THAT’S VERY CONTROVERSIAL. BACKGROUND CHECKS, CRIMINAL CHECKS, THE UNIONS HAVE FOUGHT THAT FOR QUITE SOME TIME. WE WILL HAVE TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS WITH THAT. BUT THAT’S SOMETHING THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT REALLY WANTS TO SEE HAPPEN. WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING OUR PORTS?

JESS>> THE RECENT REPORT THAT LISTS THE MOST LIKELY TARGETS FOR TERRORISM LISTS THE PORTS WELL UP INTO THAT LIST. IS THAT GOING TO GIVE NEW IMPETUS TO PROVIDING FUNDS FOR IT?

GAY YEE>> YOU WOULD HOPE SO, BUT IT IS ONE OF THOSE SITUATIONS WHERE YOU HAVE AN UNFUNDED MANDATE. WE’RE BEING TOLD WE NEED TO CRACK DOWN ON THIS, BUT UNFORTUNATELY, THE FUNDS HAVEN’T COME FORWARD YET.

VAL>> AND WITH ALL THE EMPHASIS ON AIRPORTS, EVERYONE IS FOCUSED THERE.

GAY YEE>> EXACTLY.

VAL>> AND YET THE PORT OF LOS ANGELES AND LONG BEACH IS THE BUSIEST PORT IN THE NATION.

GAY YEE>> THAT IS, AND PART OF THE PROBLEM IS OUR PERCEPTION. AT AIRPORTS, WE’RE MOVING PEOPLE AND PEOPLE DON’T SEEM TO WORRY AS MUCH ABOUT GOODS, OF STEREOS AND TENNIS SHOES. BUT, UNFORTUNATELY, THAT’S A LOT OF THE STUFF THAT COMES INTO OUR COUNTRY AND INTO OUR PORT.

VAL>> GAY YEE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

MONDAY ON LIFE AND TIMES, A SPECIAL REPORT FROM GUANTANAMO WHERE TALIBAN AND AL QAEDA FIGHTERS ARE BEING DETAINED. WE’LL FIND OUT WHAT CONDITIONS ARE LIKE FOR THE DETAINEES AND THE AMERICANS WATCHING OVER THEM.

>> THEY SEEM NOT TO BE BAD PEOPLE. THEY SEEM TO BE JUST, YOU KNOW, YOUR EVERYDAY GOOD PEOPLE. PERSONALLY, I USE EXTREME CAUTION IN DEALING WITH THEM BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I’M NOT SURE IF THEY’RE USING CERTAIN TACTICS TO TRY TO REEL YOU IN.

JESS>> THIS WEEK, SADDAM HUSSEIN TOLD DAN RATHER THAT HE WILL NOT GO QUIETLY INTO THE NIGHT IF AMERICAN FORCES SHOULD INVADE IRAQ. IN THE INTERVIEW, HUSSEIN REFUSED TO EVEN CONSIDER THE POSSIBILITY OF STEPPING DOWN TO AVOID A WAR AND THAT ONLY REINFORCED CONCERNS THAT HE MIGHT UNLEASH A DEADLY BIOLOGICAL OR CHEMICAL ATTACK AIMED NOT ONLY AT INVADING U.S. FORCES, BUT ALSO AT THE IRAQI PEOPLE.

VAL>> AND JOINING US NOW IS MIDDLE EAST EXPERT, RICHARD DEKMEJIAN. HE IS CHAIR OF THE POLITICAL SCIENCE DEPARTMENT AT USC AND ALSO A CONSULTANT TO THE STATE DEPARTMENT AND DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE. WELCOME TO LIFE AND TIMES.

JESS>> PROFESSOR, WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION TO THE HUSSEIN INTERVIEW?

RICHARD DEKMEJIAN>> NOT SURPRISING AT ALL. NOT SURPRISING. HIS PSYCHOLOGICAL PROFILE WHICH WE HAVE DONE MANY YEARS AGO INDICATES THAT HUSSEIN CAME OUT FROM POVERTY, FROM A BROKEN HOME, FATHERLESS ACTUALLY, GREW UP IN A ROUGH ENVIRONMENT AND HE ASPIRED FOR SUPREME POWER IN COMPENSATION FOR HIS CHILDHOOD DEPRIVATIONS. SO POWER AND HUSSEIN, THAT’S HIS EXISTENCE. HE CAN’T LET GO.

VAL>> BUT WHY IS HE WILLING TO SACRIFICE HIS OWN PEOPLE TO -- OF COURSE, IT WAS THE KURDS THAT HE GASSED IN 1988 -- IS HE JUST COMPLETELY ENVELOPED IN HIS OWN EGOMANIA? HE DOESN’T HAVE ANY KIND OF LOYALTY TO HIS OWN PEOPLE?

RICHARD DEKMEJIAN>> HE’S EXTREMELY SELF-CENTERED IN THAT SENSE BECAUSE HE EQUATES HIS POWER WITH THE GLORY OF IRAQ AND EVEN OF THE ARABS AND HE’S TREATED HIS OPPONENTS AT HOME, HIS PEOPLE, VERY BRUTALLY IN THE PAST. NOT ONLY THE KURDS, BUT THE SHIITES, AND ALSO EVEN THE SUNNIE PEOPLE. YOU CAN’T GUARANTEE HIM SECURITY ANYWAY BECAUSE HE IS A VERY INSECURE MAN AND DOESN’T TRUST OUR WORD. I MEAN, ESPECIALLY IN RECENT YEARS, WE HAVEN’T KEPT OUR WORD IN PLACES LIKE AFGHANISTAN AND ELSEWHERE. WE DIDN’T KEEP OUR WORD TO THE KURDS AND THE SHIITES IN 1991 AND THEY WERE MASSACRED BY HUSSEIN, SO HE DOESN’T TRUST US.

JESS>> NOW THAT’S COSTING US WHEN IT COMES TO LOOKING AT THE OPPOSITION TO HUSSEIN IN IRAQ?

RICHARD DEKMEJIAN>> YES.

JESS>> BECAUSE THEY DON’T TRUST US EITHER?

RICHARD DEKMEJIAN>> THAT’S CORRECT. NO ONE DOES. IT’S A VERY INTERESTING SITUATION WHERE THE KURDS IN THE NORTH WHO WERE MASSACRED BOTH BY SADDAM AS WELL AS BY THE TURKS BECAUSE, IN TURKEY, THERE ARE EVEN MORE KURDS. THEY DON’T KNOW WHAT TO DO BECAUSE, UNDER THIS ACCORD WITH TURKEY WHERE WE’RE GOING TO PAY THEM PROBABLY $26 BILLION TO $30 BILLION DOLLARS, THERE IS GOING TO BE A TURKISH ARMY IN THE OIL AREAS IN THE NORTH WHICH IS KURDISH AND THE KURDS ARE TERRIFIED OF THAT. SO IT’S A MESS TO BEGIN WITH AND THE SHIITES IN THE SOUTH WERE MASSACRED AS WELL. THEY ROSE UP AND TOOK IT SERIOUSLY.

JESS>> IT SOUNDS LIKE THAT WOULD BE UNGOVERNABLE, EVEN IF -- AND WE CAN, I GUESS, PRESUME THAT THERE WILL BE A WAR AND WE CAN PRESUME THAT HUSSEIN WILL BE GONE, BUT WHAT HAPPENS THEN? WHAT DO WE DO? AN OCCUPATION FORCE?

RICHARD DEKMEJIAN>> THERE’S A SLIGHT CHANCE THAT WAR MIGHT BE AVERTED, BY THE WAY, OR NOT IN AN IMMEDIATE SENSE, BECAUSE THE WAY WE’RE GOING, IT MAY START IN LATE MARCH. WHAT HAPPENS IF, ALL OF A SUDDEN, SADDAM SAYS, LOOK, I HAVE ALL OF THESE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION -- AND WE KNOW WHAT HE’S GOT. HE DOESN’T HAVE ATOMIC WEAPONS, WE KNOW THAT, AND HE WON’T BE ABLE TO DEVELOP THEM, BY THE WAY. BUT HE DOES HAVE, YOU KNOW, WHAT ANOTHER FIFTY OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE, BACTERIOLOGICAL STUFF AND CHEMICAL STUFF -- SO HE’LL SAY HERE THEY ARE. I HAVE THEM HIDDEN AND I’M PREPARED TO GIVE THEM UP, BUT I NEED FROM THE UNITED STATES AND FROM THE UNITED NATIONS A GUARANTEE THAT THEY’RE NOT GOING TO INVADE IRAQ. THEN WHAT WOULD WE DO?

JESS>> NOT INVADE?

RICHARD DEKMEJIAN>> WELL, BUT THE AGENDA OF THE BUSH WHITE HOUSE, AT LEAST SOME PEOPLE IN THAT ADMINISTRATION, HAVE BIG PLANS FOR THE MIDDLE EAST AND FOR IRAQ.

JESS>> REGARDLESS.

RICHARD DEKMEJIAN>> REGARDLESS.

VAL>> NOW ANOTHER SCENARIO WOULD BE THAT, SHORT OF WAR AND YET GETTING SADDAM HUSSEIN OUT, WOULD BE TO BACK THOSE WHO OPPOSE HIM AND WOULD LIKE TO GET HIM OUT. I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS A GROUP CALLED THE SUPREME COUNCIL FOR ISLAMIC REVOLUTION?

RICHARD DEKMEJIAN>> THAT IS CORRECT.

VAL>> THEY’RE EXILED IN IRAN, I UNDERSTAND?

RICHARD DEKMEJIAN>> THAT IS CORRECT.

VAL>> TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THEM.

RICHARD DEKMEJIAN>> WELL, THAT IS THE LARGEST SHIITE GROUP, AND THE SHIITES CONSTITUTE ABOUT FIFTY-FIVE PERCENT OF THE POPULATION OF IRAQ.

VAL>> LED BY SOME FELLOW NAMED AYATOLLAH HAKIM?

RICHARD DEKMEJIAN>> THAT’S RIGHT. AYATOLLAH HAKIM --

JESS>> -- WHO WE SEE HERE?

RICHARD DEKMEJIAN>> YES. HE HAS HIS HEADQUARTERS IN IRAN AND HE HAS AN ARMY, EXCEPT THAT ALL OF THE ATTACKS THAT THEY’VE ORGANIZED THROUGHOUT THE YEARS AGAINST SADDAM, TERRORISM AGAINST THE SADDAM REGIME, HAVE NOT SUCCEEDED AT ALL. THERE’S A THEORY, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT SAYS IT WAS THEM WHO TRIED TO ASSASSINATE SADDAM’S OLDEST SON, UDAY, WHO IS PARALYZED, A BRUTAL FELLOW. THEY, HOWEVER, RESPOND TO WISHES OF IRAN THAT IDOLIZES THE AYATOLLAH, VERY CLOSE TO IRAN AND THE IRANIAN REVOLUTION, SO ONE NEEDS TO BE CAREFUL. BUT THEY CONSTITUTE A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF POWER, ESPECIALLY IN THE SOUTH WHERE WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO TRIGGER A REVOLUTION AGAINST SADDAM AS HE MOVES AGAINST THE REBELS. THEY WILL BE ASKING US FOR INTERVENTION AND THAT WILL LEGALIZE, IN A SENSE, IN SOME MINDS, A LEGAL TRIGGER FOR OUR INTERVENTION.

JESS>> BUT IF WE REALLY WANT TO SEE A DEMOCRATIC IRAQ, IS THAT A POSSIBLE GOAL?

RICHARD DEKMEJIAN>> WELL, FAR OFF IN THE FUTURE, OF COURSE.

JESS>> HOW FAR OFF IN THE FUTURE? (LAUGHTER)

RICHARD DEKMEJIAN>> IT’S TOUGH TO TELL.

JESS>> SEVERAL GENERATIONS?

RICHARD DEKMEJIAN>> PERHAPS. BUT THE DESIGN OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION AT THIS POINT APPEARS TO BE A TYPE OF PERSON, A MACARTHUR, ONLY TOUGHER, TYPE OF PERSON, AND A LARGE AMERICAN CONTINGENT WHICH WOULD PROBABLY BE ABOUT 150,000 TROOPS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE VARIOUS COMMUNITIES DON’T MASSACRE EACH OTHER. YOU SEE, THAT’S THE FIRST THING TO MAKE SURE. THE OTHER IS THAT YOU HAVE TO ADMINISTER IN SUCH A WAY THAT YOU BEGIN TO TRAIN THE LOCAL YOKELS SO THAT YOU’RE NOT IN THE WAY OF FIRE BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO WANT TO ATTACK US, AT LEAST SOME PEOPLE WOULD.

VAL>> THIS SOUNDS LIKE A VERY EXPENSIVE LONG-TERM SCENARIO.

RICHARD DEKMEJIAN>> I ESTIMATE THAT, IN TERMS OF THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS, IT WOULD BE PROBABLY $200 BILLION. I MEAN, IF YOU’RE GOING TO PAY THE TURKS AT LEAST $30 BILLION, HOW ABOUT EVERYBODY ELSE? EVERYBODY ELSE HAS GOT THEIR HANDS OUT. EVEN IRAN IS GETTING IDEAS ABOUT IT. THE ISRAELIS HAVE GOT A HUGE, YOU KNOW, LIST OF THINGS THEY WANT FROM US AND THAT MAY BE, YOU KNOW, $4 BILLION, $5 BILLION OR $6 BILLION. WE’VE GOT REAL PROBLEMS, AND THEN I KNOW WHAT’S HAPPENING IN OUR GHETTOS. IT’S TRAGIC.

VAL>> AND THAT’S ANOTHER DISCUSSION. WE WANT TO THANK YOU VERY MUCH, USC PROFESSOR RICHARD DEKMEJIAN. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR LENDING US YOUR EXPERTISE. WE HOPE TO HAVE YOU BACK AGAIN.

RICHARD DEKMEJIAN>> YOU’RE WELCOME.

JESS>> TIME NOW TO CHECK OUR VIEWER MAIL, AND MUCH OF IT RELATES TO THE HUGE SPLIT IN PUBLIC OPINION OVER THAT POSSIBLE WAR WITH IRAQ. THERE WAS ALSO A SPLIT AMONG OUR VIEWERS OVER ONE OF OUR GUESTS, ACTOR MIKE FARRELL.

VAL>> HE’S ONE OF THE LEADERS OF THE SO-CALLED VIRTUAL PEACE MARCH ON WASHINGTON. FARRELL APPEARED ON LIFE AND TIMES AS THE GROUP WAS PREPARING TO BOMBARD WASHINGTON, D.C. WITH ANTI-WAR MESSAGES. THOMAS BROCK WRITES:

“I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD CHANGE THE NAME OF YOUR PROGRAM FROM LIFE AND TIMES TO DEMOCRATS R US. TO IMPLY THAT YOU HAVE ANY REMNANT OF AN OBJECTIVE VIEW IS A CRUEL JOKE ON LESSER MINDS.”

VAL>> THEN AGAIN, WE DID INTERVIEW FORMER REPUBLICAN STATE CHAIRMAN, SHAWN STEEL, WHO TALKED ABOUT RECALLING GOVERNOR DAVIS. PETER HANSBERRY WRITES:

“IF THE SO-CALLED REPUBLICANS (SMALL R) THINK THAT THEY CAN STEAL ANOTHER ELECTION, THINK FLORIDA. THEY ARE JUST BEING THEIR USUAL SELF-CENTERED SELVES. A BETTER RECALL WOULD BE TO GET RID OF PRESIDENT (SMALL P) BUSH.”

VAL>> PATRICK MCALLISTER HAD A MESSAGE FOR THE TWO JOURNALISTS WHO TALKED ABOUT TRAINING FOR WAR COVERAGE. HE WRITES:

“PLEASE TELL THOSE CORRESPONDENTS THAT WE DO NOT WANT REAL TIME WAR NEWS THAT WILL COST LIVES. IF ONE LIFE IS LOST DUE TO LOOSE LIPS, THE BIG MOUTH SHOULD BE TRIED FOR MURDER.”

VAL>> AND WE GOT A NOTE OF THANKS FOR A SEGMENT FEATURING THE COMEDY TROUPE “FIRESIGN THEATER”. ROBERT PANN WRITES:

“WHAT A DELIGHTFUL SURPRISE TO HAVE THEM ON TONIGHT’S SHOW. THEIR LEVITY ON DEPRESSING CURRENT EVENTS WAS A MOST WELCOME RESPITE.”

TO SEND A COMMENT OR A QUESTION TO OUR PROGRAM, YOU CAN REACH US BY MAIL AT THIS ADDRESS:

LIFE AND TIMES
4401 SUNSET BLVD.
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90027

YOU CAN ALSO CALL OUR VIEWER COMMENT LINE (323) 953-5555) OR CONTACT US THE FAST WAY BY E-MAIL AT KCET.ORG.

JESS>> THEY ARE THE LANDMARKS OF LOS ANGELES MANY OF US TAKE FOR GRANTED. BUT IN THE WORLD OF ARCHITECTURE, THEY ARE REGARDED AS NOTHING SHORT OF MASTERPIECES AND THEY ALL HAVE ONE THING IN COMMON. THEY WERE BUILT BY BECKET. WELTON BECKET PASSED AWAY MORE THAN THIRTY YEARS AGO, BUT HIS WORK IS BEING REMEMBERED WITH SOMETHING CALLED “THE BECKET CENTENNIAL”.

VAL>> IT’S A SPECIAL TRIBUTE MARKING THE 100TH ANNIVERSARY OF BECKET’S BIRTH AND JOINING US NOW TO TALK ABOUT IT ARE CHRIS NICHOLS AND ALAN LEIB. THEY ARE FROM THE LOS ANGELES CONSERVANCY, THE GROUP THAT’S PUTTING TOGETHER THIS SALUTE. WELCOME TO LIFE AND TIMES.

ALAN LEIB>> THANKS.

CHRIS NICHOLS>> THANK YOU.

JESS>> SOCIETY HAS DEVELOPED A REAL AFFECTION FOR ARCHITECTURE AND ARCHITECTS NOW, BUT WELTON BECKET’S PERIOD WAS ONE WHERE IT WAS TAKEN FOR GRANTED, WASN’T IT?

ALAN LEIB>> NOT SO MUCH TAKEN FOR GRANTED, BUT HE DID A CERTAIN KIND OF ARCHITECTURE, LARGE-SCALE CORPORATE ARCHITECTURE PRIMARILY AND CIVIC ARCHITECTURE, WHERE HE WAS KIND OF ALMOST ANONYMOUS UNLESS YOU WERE ACTUALLY INVOLVED WITH THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE PROJECT. SO AS A RESULT, HE DIDN’T GET THE SAME SORT OF PUBLIC ACCLAIM AS OTHERS LIKE FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT OR SORT OF ARTISAN TYPE OF ARCHITECT MIGHT HAVE GOTTEN.

VAL>> I GUESS THEY CALL THEM “STARCHITECTS” THESE DAYS (LAUGHTER). BUT TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HIM. HE WAS RAISED IN SEATTLE?

ALAN LEIB>> RIGHT. HE WAS FROM SEATTLE, WASHINGTON. HE AND HIS FRIEND, WALTER WURDEMAN, GOT ARCHITECTURE DEGREES FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON. THEN AFTERWARDS, THEY CAME TO LOS ANGELES IN THE 1930’S AND EVENTUALLY THEY GOT A COMMISSION TO DO THE PAN PACIFIC AUDITORIUM, WHICH WAS, YOU KNOW, A VERY ICONIC STRUCTURE, AND THAT SORT OF LAUNCHED THEIR CAREERS.

VAL>> AND THEY GOT THAT COMMISSION BECAUSE IT WAS A COMPETITION, YES?

CHRIS NICHOLS>> IT WAS A CONTEST AND THE THREE OF THEM, WURDEMAN, BECKET AND THEIR PARTNER AT THE TIME, CHARLES PLUMMER, ENTERED THE CONTEST AND WON. THEY SPLIT THE PRIZE MONEY AND THEY BUILT THIS ICONIC STRUCTURE ON BEVERLY BOULEVARD THAT SURVIVED UNTIL THE LATE 1980’S WHEN IT BURNED IN A FIRE.

VAL>> WHAT A SHAME.

JESS>> LOOKING AT SOME OF HIS PROJECTS THERE, THERE WAS THE PARKER CENTER, WHICH IS NOW BEING QUESTIONED WHETHER IT CAN BE RETAINED OR NOT.

ALAN LEIB>> RIGHT. HOPEFULLY, THEY CAN FIND A WAY OF REUSING THAT BUILDING.

JESS>> CAPITAL BUILDING WAS HIS TOO?

ALAN LEIB>> CAPITAL RECORDS BUILDING WAS A WELTON BECKETT ASSOCIATES PROJECT. THEY DID A LOT OF VERY --

JESS>> -- CINERAMADOME?

ALAN LEIB>> -- FUTURISTIC BUILDINGS THAT BECAME ICONIC OF LOS ANGELES BEING SORT OF THE CITY OF TOMORROW.

VAL>> IT DOES HAVE THAT MODERN LOOK. OF COURSE, NOW -- I’LL PUT IT TO YOU. HAVE HIS BUILDINGS STOOD THE TEST OF TIME IN TERMS OF DESIGN OR DO YOU THINK --

ALAN LEIB>> -- I THINK THEY HAVE BECAUSE THEY REALLY DEFINE AN ERA AND THEY DEFINE LOS ANGELES IN THAT ERA. I DON’T REALLY KNOW OF ANY OTHER ARCHITECT WHO HAS SO MANY BUILDINGS THAT ARE SO CLOSELY ASSOCIATED WITH A BUILDING IN THAT TIME PERIOD, WITH A CITY, I MEAN.

CHRIS NICHOLS>> WITH BECKET, YOU KNOW THE FACE, BUT YOU DON’T KNOW THE NAME. YOU KNOW THE PROJECT. YOU KNOW THE PARKER CENTER, YOU KNOW CINERAMADOME, YOU KNOW CAPITAL RECORDS, BUT YOU DON’T KNOW EXACTLY --

ALAN LEIB>> -- YOU SEE LOS ANGELES.

JESS>> AND YOU DO KNOW THE STYLE.

CHRIS NICHOLS>> DEFINITELY, ALTHOUGH THEY DIDN’T NECESSARILY HAVE A STYLE THAT YOU COULD FOLLOW FROM BUILDING TO BUILDING TO BUILDING. THE TOTAL DESIGN THAT THEY CREATED WAS REALLY SPECIFIC TO THEIR FIRM. THEY DID THE NAPKINS AND THE MATCHBOOKS AND THE SIGNAGE AND EVERYTHING IN A PROJECT.

ALAN LEIB>> BUT YOU COULD SAY THAT THE STYLE WAS MODERN IN TERMS OF THE BUILDINGS.

VAL>> WE’RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK A LITTLE BIT MORE SPECIFICALLY AT SOME OF THE THINGS HE’S DONE. THE BEVERLY HILTON WAS A BECKET BUILDING.

ALAN LEIB>> RIGHT. THAT WAS A VERY LUXURIOUS HOTEL WHEN IT WAS BUILT. IT HAD BALCONIES AND, AT THE TIME IT WAS BUILT, IT HAD MULTI-COLORED PANELS ON EACH BALCONY THAT MADE IT LOOK EVEN MORE MODERN AND FUTURISTIC.

JESS>> BUT THAT’S PRETTY MUCH UNCHANGED TODAY.

CHRIS NICHOLS>> IT’S VERY MUCH UNCHANGED.

ALAN LEIB>> PRETTY MUCH, YEAH.

CHRIS NICHOLS>> BUT BECKET SITES ARE NOT JUST THE ARCHITECTURAL HISTORY OF LOS ANGELES, BUT THEY’RE THE SOCIAL HISTORY OF LOS ANGELES. THE MUSIC CENTER IS WHERE THE ACADEMY AWARDS HAPPEN. PARKER CENTER, EVERYONE KNOWS PARKER CENTER. THE BEVERLY HILTON, YOU KNOW, IN ALL OF ITS IMPORTANCE IN --

ALAN LEIB>> -- PAULEY PAVILION IS WHERE THE BRUINS PLAYED AND WON ALL THOSE CHAMPIONSHIPS WHILE THEY WERE PLAYING AT PAULEY PAVILION.

JESS>> THAT IS HISTORY (LAUGHTER).

ALAN LEIB>> (LAUGHTER) UNFORTUNATELY.

VAL>> BUT HE ALSO HAD A LOT TO DO WITH CENTURY CITY.

CHRIS NICHOLS>> THEY WERE THE MASTER PLANNERS OF CENTURY CITY. THEIR OFFICE WAS THE FIRST BUILDING IN CENTURY CITY, THE SELF-CONTAINED CITY OF THE FUTURE WITH VEHICLES ON ONE LEVEL AND PEDESTRIANS ON ANOTHER LEVEL, PEDESTRIAN BRIDGES. PART OF THE “PLANET OF THE APES” WAS FILMED THERE. I MEAN, IT WAS --

JESS>> -- THAT WAS AN ALCOA PROJECT, WAS IT NOT?

CHRIS NICHOLS>> THEY FUNDED IT, BUT BECKET MASTER PLANNED IT.

JESS>> DID THEY DICTATE THE MATERIALS BEING USED?

CHRIS NICHOLS>> EVERY BUILDING USED A LOT OF ALUMINUM (LAUGHTER).

ALAN LEIB>> RIGHT. HE ALSO WORKED FOR HENRY KAISER A LOT AND HE DID A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, KAISER ALUMINUM, KAISER STEEL, IN HIS BUILDINGS AS WELL.

VAL>> AND HERE, OF COURSE, IS THE MUSIC CENTER WHICH WE ALL KNOW SO WELL.

CHRIS NICHOLS>> DOROTHY CHANDLER WAS A GOOD FRIEND OF HIS, AS WAS WALT DISNEY AND RONALD REAGAN AND WALTER PIDGEON. I MEAN, HE MOVED IN THESE CIRCLES.

ALAN LEIB>> AND HE DID A LOT OF BUILDING FOR WALT DISNEY. HE DID WORLD’S FAIR BUILDINGS IN THE 1964 WORLD’S FAIR. HE BUILT ICONIC STRUCTURES IN OTHER CITIES AS WELL. THE GRAND OLE OPRY, MANY HIGH-RISES AND SKYSCRAPERS IN OTHER CITIES, PITTSBURGH, HOUSTON. SORT OF ICONIC STRUCTURES IN THOSE CITIES WERE DESIGNED BY BECKET AS WELL.

JESS>> WHAT WOULD HE THINK OF THE NEW DISNEY CONCERT HALL?

VAL>> THAT’S A VERY GOOD QUESTION.

CHRIS NICHOLS>> WELL, I THINK IT’S PUSHING THE ENVELOPE OF WHAT’S HAPPENING NOW. IT’S ONE OF THE MOST PROGRESSIVE THINGS IN THE CITY. IT’S --

JESS>> -- WAS HE DOING THAT?

CHRIS NICHOLS>> I THINK THAT IT BLENDS VERY WELL WITH THE MUSIC CENTER AND WITH THE WORK THAT HE DID THERE. I DON’T NECESSARILY KNOW THAT HE WOULD HAVE GONE IN THAT DIRECTION SPECIFICALLY, BUT HE WAS ALL ABOUT DOING THINGS FOR THE CLIENT AND DOING WHAT THEY ASKED HIM TO DO AND NOT COMING UP WITH HIS OWN SORT OF TAKE ON WHAT THEY WANTED HIM TO DO.

ALAN LEIB>> AND CERTAINLY THE MODERNISM. DISNEY HALL IS OBVIOUSLY A VERY MODERN BUILDING AND BECKET WAS REALLY A MODERN ARCHITECT, SO IT REALLY CONTINUES THAT TRADITION.

VAL>> AND ANOTHER LANDMARK THAT HE DID WAS THE CINERAMADOME IN HOLLYWOOD. EVERYONE KNOWS THAT.

ALAN LEIB>> RIGHT.

JESS>> AND IT WAS ALMOST DESTROYED TOO. IT TOOK PRESERVATIONISTS TO KEEP IT, DIDN’T IT?

ALAN LEIB>> EXACTLY.

CHRIS NICHOLS>> A COALITION OF DIFFERENT PRESERVATION GROUPS WORKED TOGETHER TO WORK WITH PACIFIC THEATERS ON PRESERVING THIS TERRIFIC LANDMARK OF ENTERTAINMENT IN HOLLYWOOD. IT’S RESTORED AND ADDED TO, SO THERE’S A VERY LARGE NEW ADDITION TO THE REAR WITH A LUXURY THEATER --

VAL>> -- THE ARCLIGHT THEATER BEHIND THERE, YES.

CHRIS NICHOLS>> BUT THE DOME IS COMPLETELY INTACT. EVEN THE NEW STUFF LOOKS JUST LIKE IT DID IN 1963. THEY’VE DONE A VERY GOOD JOB OF RESTORING THAT.

VAL>> SO YOU THINK HE’D BE HAPPY WITH THE WAY IT’S BEEN BUILT AROUND?

CHRIS NICHOLS>> IT’S PRETTY CLOSE (LAUGHTER).

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) IT’S KIND OF CROWDED, ACTUALLY.

CHRIS NICHOLS>> IT’S ITS OWN WORLD STILL. IT’S STILL VERY INTACT AND IT’S A REMARKABLE PLACE. IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT ALL THE PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY WORKED ON THE DOME THEMSELVES SAY WHEN THEY ALL MEET UP THERE AT THE SHOW.

ALAN LEIB>> RIGHT. THE PEOPLE WHO BUILT IT AND DESIGNED THE DOME WILL BE AT THIS EVENT, INCLUDING MANY PEOPLE IN THE OFFICE WHO HADN’T SEEN EACH OTHER IN THIRTY YEARS SINCE THE OFFICE WAS MERGED INTO AN OFFICE IN MINNEAPOLIS.

VAL>> SO IT’S A REUNION?

CHRIS NICHOLS>> RIGHT, A BIG REUNION. THERE WILL BE PLENTY OF THESE FOLKS TO COME OUT.

ALAN LEIB>> ON STAGE, THEY’LL BE REUNITING AND DISCUSSING AND REMINISCING.

JESS>> GENTLEMEN, WE THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US. “THE BECKET SALUTE” BEGINS NEXT TUESDAY, MARCH 4, WITH A LECTURE AND SCREENING AT THE CINERAMADOME AND IT CONTINUES ON SATURDAY, MARCH 8, WITH A TOUR OF HIS BUILDINGS. FOR MORE INFORMATION ON THE BECKET CENTENNIAL, YOU CAN LOG ONTO THE LOS ANGELES CONSERVANCY’S WEBSITE AT LACONSERVANCY.ORG.

VAL>> AND A REMINDER THAT YOU CAN FIND TRANSCRIPTS OR LISTEN TO RECENT AUDIO OF OUR PROGRAMS ON OUR WEBSITE AT KCET.ORG.

JESS>> AND THAT’S TONIGHT’S PROGRAM. NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, THANK YOU AND GOOD NIGHT.

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