2/19/03

LC030219

VAL ZAVALA>> TONIGHT ON LIFE AND TIMES --

JESS MARLOW>> TAKING AIM AT THE MEDIA POWERHOUSES AND GIVING LOS ANGELES SOME CHOICES WHEN IT COMES TO THE NEWS.

JILL STEWART>> WE NEED MEDIA THAT’S GOT SURPRISES IN IT AND GIVE US ACTUAL NEWS. NEWS, MEANING NEW INFORMATION. YOU KNOW, THAT’S WHAT WE NEED.

VAL>> AND THEN WHY IS THIS MAN SMILING? WE’LL GET THE LATEST ON THE REPUBLICANS’ EFFORT TO RECALL GRAY DAVIS AND WE’LL FIND OUT WHY IT MAY BE GAINING STEAM.

JESS>> PLUS, REMEMBERING AN ANNIVERSARY CALIFORNIA WOULD JUST AS SOON FORGET.

VAL>> IT’S ALL STRAIGHT AHEAD ON TONIGHT’S LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> THEY’RE PLANTING THE SEEDS FOR WHAT COULD BECOME AN ALL-OUT MEDIA WAR.

JESS>> THE QUESTION IS, DOES LOS ANGELES REALLY NEED ANOTHER NEWSPAPER? THE CITY’S FORMER MAYOR SEEMS TO THINK SO. THAT’S WHY RICHARD RIORDAN IS BANKROLLING SOMETHING CALLED THE LOS ANGELES EXAMINER. BUT AS GAY YEE REPORTS, BY THE TIME RIORDAN’S PAPER HITS THE STANDS, HE MAY HAVE PLENTY OF COMPANY.

GAY YEE>> THIS IS THE PROTOTYPE OF FORMER L.A. MAYOR RICHARD RIORDAN’S FORAY INTO THE WORLD OF NEWSPAPER PUBLISHING, A WEEKLY TABLOID CALLED THE LOS ANGELES EXAMINER.

RICHARD RIORDAN>> TO ME, IT’S VERY EXCITING TO GET OUT THERE AND BE ABLE TO WRITE THINGS AND TO TELL THE TRUTH LIKE IT IS EVEN IF YOU DON’T LIKE WHAT YOU SEE. WHETHER IT GETS THE CONSERVATIVES MAD OR THE LIBERALS MAD, AT LEAST YOU HAVE THE GUTS TO GET OUT THERE AND TELL IT LIKE IT IS.

GAY YEE>> RIORDAN PLANS TO TAKE ON THE LOS ANGELES TIMES. HE SAYS HE’S TIRED OF THE TIMES’ NEGATIVITY AND LIBERAL BIAS AND HE THINKS HE CAN DO THE JOB BETTER HIMSELF WITH HIS OWN NEWSPAPER. BACK IN THE 1980’S, LOS ANGELES HAD SEVERAL INDEPENDENT NEWSPAPERS AND NOW THERE IS BASICALLY JUST ONE, THE L.A. WEEKLY. AND THE PUBLISHERS SAY ANGELENOS ARE NOT JUST ASKING FOR MORE SELECTION, THEY’RE SCREAMING FOR IT. THE CITY LOST ONE ALTERNATIVE VOICE WHEN THE NEW TIMES STOPPED PUBLICATION. REPORTER JILL STEWART WITNESSED FIRSTHAND WHAT HAPPENS WHEN NEWSPAPERS LOSE MONEY.

JILL STEWART>> WE HAD NO IDEA UNTIL THE NIGHT WE ALL WENT TO THE DINNER AND WE WERE TOLD WE WERE ALL LOSING OUR JOBS THE NEXT MORNING AND THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO MOVE OUT OF THE BUILDING WITHIN TWENTY-FOUR HOURS.

GAY YEE>> STEWART IS ONE OF THE PEOPLE RICHARD RIORDAN TAPPED TO WRITE FOR HIS PROTOTYPE PAPER. SHE AGREES THE MORE VOICES IN PRINT, THE BETTER FOR LOS ANGELES, EVEN IF THEY SAY THINGS THAT RICHARD RIORDAN MAY NOT WANT TO HEAR.

JILL STEWART>> HE TOLD ME AT ONE POINT THAT HE WAS GOING TO WRITE AN EDITORIAL SAYING THAT NO POLITICAL CORRECTNESS WOULD BE ALLOWED. ANY WRITER WITH POLITICAL CORRECT IDEAS WOULD BE SHOT.

GAY YEE>> STEWART SAYS THAT COULD BE A REFRESHING CHANGE.

JILL STEWART>> I’M LIBERAL ON ENVIRONMENT, YOU KNOW, BUT CONSERVATIVE ON THINGS LIKE WELFARE REFORM. HE’S MORE CONSERVATIVE THAN I AM. HE’S A REPUBLICAN. I’M A DEMOCRAT WHO HATES THE DEMOCRATS, SO YOU BRING TOGETHER A BUNCH OF POLITICAL MUTTS WHO ARE MIXED, WHO AREN’T PARTISAN ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, WHICH IS MORE LIKE REAL PEOPLE, AND SEE WHAT THEY COUGH UP.

GAY YEE>> SO FAR, THE 52-PAGE PROTOTYPE IS ONLY BEING CIRCULATED TO ADVERTISERS AND INVESTORS. RIORDAN HOPES TO RECEIVE ENOUGH BACKING TO HAVE IT ON NEWSSTANDS BY JUNE. IN THE MEANTIME, WE CIRCULATED IT TO FIND OUT WHAT READERS THINK. WE WENT TO THE COFFEE TABLE IN SILVER LAKE, AN ARTISTIC BOHEMIAN HANGOUT WHERE INDEPENDENT NEWSPAPERS HAVE A STRONG FOLLOWING.

GAY YEE>> WOULD YOU READ A PAPER BY RICHARD RIORDAN?

>> I DON’T KNOW. I DON’T KNOW IF I WOULD. I ALREADY HAVE A BIAS AGAINST IT, I GUESS.

>> I THINK IT’S GREAT. I’M A WRITER AND I WAS VERY, VERY SORRY TO SEE THE DEMISE OF THE NEW TIMES, OF COURSE. SO I THINK THE MARKETPLACE OF IDEAS SHOULD EXPAND, NOT CONTRACT. SO I’D SAY BRING IT ON.

>> THE FACT THAT THE COVER STORY IS ON SPORTS DOESN’T NECESSARILY APPEAL TO ME (LAUGHTER) BECAUSE I GUESS I’M NOT A LAKERS FAN, AND IT LOOKS LIKE IT’S PRIMARILY ORIENTED TOWARDS ENTERTAINMENT.

GAY YEE>> BUT THERE WAS LESS CRITICISM HERE ABOUT WHAT THEY READ THAN HOW LITTLE OF IT THERE IS TO READ.

>> NOT EVERYONE WANTS TO WATCH TV. WELL, WE WANT TO WATCH YOUR PROGRAM, OF COURSE (LAUGHTER).

GAY YEE>> MARTIN ALBORNOZ IS PUBLISHER OF THE BI-WEEKLY SILVER LAKE PRESS.

MARTIN ALBORNOZ>> I DON’T THINK YOU’LL SEE RIORDAN DOING THAT.

GAY YEE>> THE PAPER IS CHANGING ITS NAME TO THE LOS ANGELES ALTERNATIVE PRESS AND INCREASING CIRCULATION TO HELP FILL THE INDEPENDENT NEWS VOID.

MARTIN ALBORNOZ>> THERE’S A NEED IN JOURNALISM, I THINK, TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, A VARIETY OF VOICES. THERE’S A NEED FOR PAPERS, FOR PUBLISHERS, TO HAVE A DIVERSITY IN PUBLISHING. THAT WAY YOU CAN HAVE -- THE MORE VOICES OUT THERE, THE MORE IDEAS ARE IN THE MARKETPLACE, THE BETTER PRODUCTS, I THINK, YOU’LL GET AND THE BETTER THE READERS WILL BE SERVED. I MEAN, I LIVED IN THE BAY AREA FOR SOME YEARS AND, IF YOU LOOK AT THE BAY AREA, AGAIN, IT’S A THIRD THE SIZE OF LOS ANGELES. THEY’VE GOT, YOU KNOW, SIX OR SEVEN DIFFERENT PAPERS IN THE CITY.

GAY YEE>> BUT THERE ARE ONLY SO MANY ADVERTISING DOLLARS TO GO AROUND AND RICHARD RIORDAN HAS DEEP POCKETS, BUT EVEN HE KNOWS THE PLUSES AND MINUSES. AND STEWART SAYS HE’LL ALSO HAVE TO LEARN THAT NO ONE IS IMMUNE FROM THE INDEPENDENT PRESS, NOT EVEN THE BOSS.

JILL STEWART>> I THINK THE ROLE OF AN INDEPENDENT PRESS IS TO QUESTION AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE THE POWER STRUCTURE. I DON’T JUST MEAN THE ELECTED POWER STRUCTURE, BUT THE VERY RICH PEOPLE LIKE DICK RIORDAN HIMSELF NEED TO BE QUESTIONED. I TOLD DICK IF YOU START A NEWSPAPER, YOU’RE GOING TO HAVE TO ALLOW YOURSELF TO BE ATTACKED AND THEN TAKE YOUR OWN EDITORIAL PAGE AND GO BACK AT YOUR OWN NEWSPAPER AND SAY I DON’T AGREE. HE’S GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE THAT STEP.

JESS>> GAY JOINS US NOW. THAT’S GOING TO BE THE ULTIMATE TEST FOR RICHARD RIORDAN.

GAY YEE>> RIGHT. HE COULD BE IN THE HOT SEAT HIMSELF AND THIS IS THE PROTOTYPE. THIS IS THE MOCK-UP THAT HE’S GENERATED. HE’S ACTUALLY SHOPPING THIS TO VARIOUS ADVERTISERS HOPING TO GET THEIR SUPPORT. IT’S HIGH-QUALITY PAPER, NICE GRAPHICS AND SOMETHING THAT COULD POSSIBLY IMPRESS A LOT OF FOLKS.

JESS>> BUT THE LOS ANGELES ALTERNATIVE NEWSPAPER IS COMING OUT TODAY.

GAY YEE>> IT’S ACTUALLY COMING OUT TODAY AND THEY HAVE HAD SUCH SUCCESS. THEY’VE ONLY BEEN AROUND LIKE A YEAR.

VAL>> AS THE SILVER LAKE PRESS.

GAY YEE>> AS THE SILVER LAKE PRESS.

VAL>> NOW THEY’RE BECOMING LOS ANGELES ALTERNATIVE PRESS, BASICALLY FILLING THE NICHE THAT THE NEW TIMES USED TO BE.

GAY YEE>> THAT IS WHAT THEY’RE HOPING TO DO AND TO FILL THE NICHE UP TO ANYTHING EAST OF LA BREA IS WHAT THEY SAY. NOT ADDRESSING THE WEST SIDE PER SE, BUT THE EASTERN PORTION OF THE CITY WHICH THEY FEEL IS THE MORE ARTISTIC, BOHEMIAN KIND OF NEIGHBORHOODS.

JESS>> IN SPITE OF RICHARD RIORDAN’S SUBSTANTIAL WEALTH, HE EXPECTS THIS TO BE A MONEY-MAKING PROPOSITION, DOESN’T HE?

GAY YEE>> HE WOULD NOT HAVE EVEN DABBLED IN IT. HE’S DONE MAJOR RESEARCH, BROUGHT ON PEOPLE WITH THEIR EXPERTISE, PEOPLE IN VARIOUS NEWSPAPERS THAT ARE ALREADY DAILIES AND TABLOIDS AS WELL, SEEING WHAT THEY THINK. DO YOU THINK THIS WOULD REALLY FLY? HE’S BEEN WORKING ON THIS FOR CLOSE TO A YEAR NOW. HE’S A SHREWD BUSINESSMAN. HE WOULD NOT GO INTO THIS WITHOUT KNOWING THAT THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THAT IT WOULD WORK AND HE IS NOT GOING TO BANKROLL THIS COMPLETELY ON HIS OWN. IT COULD COST CLOSE TO $20 MILLION DOLLARS.

VAL>> DOES HE MAKE NO BONES ABOUT THE FACT THAT IT HAS A CONSERVATIVE SLANT OR IS HE ACTUALLY PRESENTING IT AS AN OBJECTIVE JOURNALISTIC NEWSPAPER?

JESS>> BUT DOES IT HAVE A CONSERVATIVE SLANT?

VAL>> DOES IT HAVE A CONSERVATIVE SLANT?

GAY YEE>> YOU KNOW, THE BASIC FEEL OF THE PAPER IS THAT IT APPEALS TO VERY WELL EDUCATED, AFFLUENT PEOPLE. A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE LOOKED AT IT FEEL THAT IT WOULD APPEAL MORE TO FOLKS ON THE WEST SIDE. BUT WHEN I POSED THAT QUESTION TO JILL STEWART, SHE SAID, YOU KNOW, IT IS A VERY DIVERSE GROUP OF PEOPLE, THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE EDUCATED COME FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE.

VAL>> THAT’S GREAT, AND THERE IS GOING TO BE A JOKE OF THE WEEK BY RICHARD RIORDAN (LAUGHTER).

GAY YEE>> IN THIS PAPER.

JESS>> AND IT’S NOT THE EDITORIAL (LAUGHTER).

GAY YEE>> NO (LAUGHTER).

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) IT’S NOT THE EDITORIAL. GAY, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, A NEW PLAN TO GET DANGEROUS DRIVERS OFF OUR HIGHWAYS. SOME OF THEM MAY BE YOUR FRIENDS AND RELATIVES. NOW THE STATE IS MAKING IT EASY FOR YOU TO REPORT THEM ANONYMOUSLY. WE’LL GET THE DETAILS TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES.

JESS>> BY SOME ACCOUNTS, IT STARTED OUT AS SOUR GRAPES ON THE PART OF A FEW REPUBLICANS WHO LOST LAST NOVEMBER, BUT NOW THE EFFORT TO RECALL GOVERNOR GRAY DAVIS MAY BE TURNING INTO A POLITICAL MOVEMENT. THIS COMING WEEKEND, THE CALIFORNIA REPUBLICAN PARTY COULD TAKE IT TO THE NEXT LEVEL. THAT’S WHEN THEY’LL DECIDE WHETHER TO TAKE UP THE RECALL BANNER AS AN OFFICIAL PARTY CAUSE.

VAL>> SO SHOULD THE GOVERNOR BE WORRIED ABOUT HOLDING ONTO HIS JOB? WELL, TONIGHT WE’RE PUTTING THAT QUESTION TO TWO SEASONED POLITICAL PROS. JOE CERRELL IS A VETERAN DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT AND A VISITING PROFESSOR OF POLITICS AT PEPPERDINE UNIVERSITY. ALSO WITH US IS ARNOLD STEINBERG, A REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST AND ADVISOR FOR MANY CONSERVATIVE CAUSES. WELCOME, GENTLEMEN, TO LIFE AND TIMES.

JOE CERRELL>> THANK YOU.

JESS>> THIS IS NOTHING ALL THAT UNUSUAL. VIRTUALLY EVERY GOVERNOR SINCE PAT BROWN HAS HAD A RECALL EFFORT MOUNTED. IS THIS ONE TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY?

JOE CERRELL>> NO MORE SERIOUSLY THAN THE OTHER. THIS IS -- YOU SAID SOUR GRAPES. THIS IS THE LOSER’S CLUB. I MEAN, LOOK DOWN THE NAMES OF ALL THE PEOPLE HERE. THE GUY WHO WANTS TO ACTUALLY RECALL REPUBLICANS. YOU GOT CENSURED SHAWN STEEL BY THE REPUBLICAN PARTY BECAUSE HE WANTS TO RECALL REPUBLICANS. SOMEBODY SAID, SHAWN, SHAWN, YOU WANT TO RECALL PEOPLE? RECALL DEMOCRATS. GO SPEND $25 MILLION DOLLARS OF THE TAXPAYERS’ MONEY.

ARNOLD STEINBERG>> JOE, I THINK THAT’S VERY FUNNY, BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT ALL THE RECALLS JESS REFERRED TO WERE FOR GOVERNORS WHOSE UNFAVORABLE RATING WAS NOTHING LIKE GRAY DAVIS’S UNFAVORABLE. GRAY DAVIS IS --

VAL>> -- YOU MEAN GRAY DAVIS IS WAY WORSE?

ARNOLD STEINBERG>> HE’S TREMENDOUSLY WORSE IN TERMS OF FAVORABILITY RATING. HE’S REALLY UNPOPULAR. BUT JOE IS RIGHT ON ONE THING, WHICH IS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY SUPPORTED THIS AS A NECESSARY CONDITION BUT NOT A SUFFICIENT CONDITION. THEY STARTED OUT ON THE WRONG TRACK AND THEY HAVE TO REINVENT THEMSELVES PRETTY SOON AS A BROADER BASED NONPARTISAN EFFORT. BUT TECHNICALLY, IF SOMEBODY COMES UP WITH ABOUT TWO OR THREE MILLION DOLLARS, THEY PROBABLY COULD GET ENOUGH SIGNATURES TO PUT THIS ON THE BALLOT. AFTER THAT, NOBODY KNOWS BECAUSE YOU HAVE BUSTAMANTE, YOU HAVE LOCKE, YOU HAVE SEVERAL DEMOCRATS THAT HAVE FIVE OR TEN MILLION DOLLARS IN THE BANK FOR THEIR NEXT RUN FOR GOVERNOR. IT’S GOING TO BE AWFULLY TEMPTING FOR THEM TO GO ON THIS BALLOT TO SUCCEED DAVIS.

JESS>> WELL, TWO POSSIBLE CONTENDERS FOR GOVERNOR IF THE RECALL WERE SUCCESSFUL COULD KICK IN TWO OR THREE MILLION ON THEIR OWN. DARRELL ISSA, RICHARD RIORDAN?

ARNOLD STEINBERG>> WELL, YOU KNOW, YOU DON’T EVEN HAVE TO HAVE THAT MUCH MONEY, JESS. YOU COULD RUN. YOU NEED JUST A FEW HUNDRED SIGNATURES. THIS BELL COULD HAVE DOZENS OF CANDIDATES. ONLY A PLURALITY WINS IT. A MAJORITY HAS TO VOTE FOR THE RECALL FOR ONE OF THOSE CANDIDATES TO THEN WIN, BUT THEN A CANDIDATE TO WIN COULD JUST BE THE ONE WHO GETS THE MOST VOTES.

VAL>> OKAY, I WANT TO UNDERSTAND. SO LET’S SAY YOU GET ENOUGH SIGNATURES, WE HAVE A SPECIAL ELECTION --

JOE CERRELL>> -- WHICH, BY THE WAY, IS WELL OVER A MILLION.

VAL>> THAT’S RIGHT. WELL OVER A MILLION --

ARNOLD STEINBERG>> -- WELL, IT’S ABOUT 900,000 NET, PROBABLY 1.3 OR 1.4 MILLION GROSS SIGNATURES.

JESS>> TO GET VALID SIGNATURES.

ARNOLD STEINBERG>> TO GET VALID SIGNATURES.

VAL>> SO YOU HAVE TO GET A MILLION SIGNATURES ALL AROUND CALIFORNIA, THEN WE HAVE A SPECIAL ELECTION, THEN I AS A CITIZEN GET TO VOTE YES OR NO ON GRAY DAVIS. DO I ALSO GET TO VOTE FOR SOMEBODY SIMULTANEOUSLY? DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN?

ARNOLD STEINBERG>> YES, BUT THE BALLOT IS ONLY OPERATIVE IF THE FIRST PART PASSES. BUT THAT’S VERY TRICKY BECAUSE AVERAGE VOTERS DON’T UNDERSTAND THAT, SO BY SEEING PEOPLE ON THE BALLOT WHO ARE GOING TO SUCCEED THE GOVERNOR, IT GIVES IT MORE OF A POSITIVE SPIN.

VAL>> I SEE.

JOE CERRELL>> YOU KNOW, IT’S SORT OF LIKE -- WELL, THEY’RE DOING SPRING TRAINING AROUND THE UNITED STATES RIGHT NOW. YOU KNOW, THE GAME IS OVER, IT’S THE BOTTOM OF THE NINTH INNING, IT’S OVER. SOMEBODY SAYS, NO, NO, LET’S HAVE A TENTH INNING. BUT WAIT A MINUTE. IT’S NOT A TIE GAME. I MEAN, THEY HAD THE ELECTION. IT WAS JUST THREE MONTHS AGO. YOU KNOW, IT WAS A STATE --

JESS>> -- BUT WE’RE TALKING INSTANT REPLAY (LAUGHTER).

ARNOLD STEINBERG>> BUT BY THE TIME OF THE RECALL, IT WILL HAVE BEEN NINE MONTHS AGO. WHAT YOU’RE DOING -- PEOPLE ARE BETTING ON THE COME. THE QUESTION FOR THE RECALL PROPONENTS IS WHAT WILL THE SITUATION BE LIKE AT THE TIME OF AN ELECTION IF THERE ARE ENOUGH SIGNATURES?

VAL>> I JUST HAVE A BASIC QUESTION. WHAT ARE THE GROUNDS FOR THIS RECALL? WE’VE HAD A LOT OF GOVERNORS --

JOE CERRELL>> -- YOU’LL HAVE TO ASK MR. STEINBERG.

ARNOLD STEINBERG>> I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, IN CALIFORNIA, AS IN ANY PLACE, THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON THE PROPONENTS OF THE RECALL. BUT, YOU KNOW, I DID A RECALL OF HOWARD MILLER HERE, WHO WAS PRESIDENT OF THE LOS ANGELES SCHOOL BOARD IN LOS ANGELES. IT WAS A PRECEDENT-SETTING RECALL. PEOPLE SAID IT COULDN’T BE DONE. YOU KNOW, THIS IS A VOLATILE SITUATION, BUT THE WAY THIS RECALL WORKS IS, IF THEY GET WOMEN INVOLVED, THEY GET LATINOS INVOLVED, THEY GET DEMOCRATS, THEY GET INDEPENDENTS. SO FAR, THEY HAVEN’T DONE THAT.

JESS>> REPUBLICANS WOULD GET LATINOS AND WOMEN --

ARNOLD STEINBERG>> -- WELL, WHAT I’M SAYING IS THAT’S WHAT THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE. INSTEAD, THEY PREMATURELY DID THIS. THEY SHOULD HAVE WAITED UNTIL AFTER THE STATE CONVENTION OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND THEN STARTED IT.

JOE CERRELL>> THE REPUBLICAN LEADER OF THE --

ARNOLD STEINBERG>> SO IT WOULDN’T LOOK LIKE SOUR GRAPES. AND JOE IS RIGHT IN THAT THE PERCEPTION OF IT IS SOUR GRAPES.

JOE CERRELL>> THAT’S THE WORD, PERCEPTION.

ARNOLD STEINBERG>> AND YOU’VE ASKED A KEY QUESTION, WHICH IS WHAT ARE THE GROUNDS? THEY HAVEN’T MADE THE GROUNDS. WHAT THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE IS PUT TOGETHER A STRATEGY TO LOOK AT THE HOT BUTTON THINGS THAT WOULD MOST MOTIVATE PEOPLE FOR A RECALL TO MAKE THIS LOOK DIFFERENT THAN SOUR GRAPES. WHAT PEOPLE HAVE TO BELIEVE IS THAT GRAY DAVIS’S CONDUCT WAS EGREGIOUSLY WORST THAN MOST POLITICIANS.

JOE CERRELL>> BUT THEY HAD THAT OPPORTUNITY IN NOVEMBER.

ARNOLD STEINBERG>> THE ISSUE WAS WHY SHOULD DAVIS LIE ABOUT THE DEFICIT.

JOE CERRELL>> THEY HAD THE OPPORTUNITY AND HE GOT RE-ELECTED. EVEN THE REPUBLICAN LEADER THIS WEEK OF THE STATE ASSEMBLY SAID I’M NOT HAVING ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT, ASSEMBLYMAN DAVE COX UP IN SACRAMENTO, BECAUSE THEY DON’T WANT TO MAKE IT APPEAR THAT THIS IS THE LOSER’S CLUB. EVERYBODY INVOLVED SO FAR IS LOSING. YOU’VE GOT TO REMEMBER, THE DEMOCRATS WON EVERY STATEWIDE CONSTITUTION OFFICER. WHAT YOU’VE GOT HERE IS PEOPLE SAYING LET’S DO IT AGAIN. LET’S CHANGE THE RULES. THAT’S WHY I ALLUDED TO BASEBALL. YOU KNOW, WE’RE GOING TO HAVE FOUR STRIKES --

ARNOLD STEINBERG>> -- WELL, THEY DON’T WANT TO CHANGE THE RULES. WE LIVE IN A STATE THE HIRAM JOHNSON PROGRESSIVES ALLOWS RECALLS. THOSE ARE THE RULES. THE QUESTION IS, CAN THEY GET ENOUGH SIGNATURES AND THEN ARE THEY COMPETENT ENOUGH TO HAVE A STRATEGY AND A PLAN TO GET BROADER-BASED --

JOE CERRELL>> -- THEY COULDN’T WIN THE ELECTION IN NOVEMBER BECAUSE THEY COULDN’T EVEN COME IN WITH A CANDIDATE THAT WAS ACCEPTABLE TO THEM. THIS IS NOT WHO WE’RE GOING TO TURN THE GOVERNMENT OVER TO.

JESS>> IF IT WERE A POPULARITY VOTE, THIS GOVERNOR IS NOT POPULAR, WAS NOT POPULAR EVEN WHEN HE WAS ELECTED.

JOE CERRELL>> BUT HE WASN’T POPULAR IN NOVEMBER, BUT THEY CHOSE EXPERIENCE. THEY CHOSE SOMEBODY THAT THEY WANTED TO LEAD AS OPPOSED TO SOME --

ARNOLD STEINBERG>> -- NO, NO. THEY WEREN’T HAPPY WITH SIMON OR SIMON’S CAMPAIGN. THEY DIDN’T HAVE ANY ENTHUSIASM FOR DAVIS. ALL THE DATA, ALL THE POLLS, SHOW PEOPLE HELD THEIR NOSE.

JOE CERRELL>> AND THEY VOTED FOR GRAY DAVIS.

ARNOLD STEINBERG>> RIGHT.

VAL>> HERE’S ANOTHER QUESTION. LET’S SAY THAT DAVIS IS RECALLED. I MEAN, SO WHAT? ARE WE RECALLING HIM BECAUSE WE DON’T LIKE WHAT HE DID IN THE PAST OR BECAUSE WE’RE AFRAID OF WHAT HE MIGHT DO IN THE FUTURE?

ARNOLD STEINBERG>> WELL, THAT’S ANOTHER GOOD QUESTION BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE GOT TO FEEL THAT THERE’S A REASON FOR THE RECALL, SOMETHING GOOD TO COME OF IT. THE QUESTION IS, IS HE GOING TO DO WORSE THINGS? THESE PEOPLE, TO HAVE A RECALL WIN, YOU’VE GOT TO FEEL THERE’S A CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER. THIS GUY IS SO SCREWED UP, HE’LL EVEN DO WORSE THINGS.

JESS>> BUT DON’T YOU HAVE TO GET SOME REALLY SPECTACULAR FIGURE ON THE BALLOT THAT WE’D RATHER HAVE RATHER THAN DAVIS?

ARNOLD STEINBERG>> THAT’S WHAT MAKES IT INTRIGUING. IF YOU HAVE EIGHT OR TEN PEOPLE WITH MONEY, THEY’RE ALL GOING TO BE SPENDING MONEY CUTTING UP THE GOVERNOR AND CAMPAIGNING FOR THEMSELVES. PLUS, IF IT’S A SPECIAL ELECTION, THE TURNOUT IS RELATIVELY LOW, SO YOU COULD HAVE A RELATIVELY SMALL NUMBER OF CALIFORNIANS DECIDING THIS ISSUE AND A REAL SMALL NUMBER WHO VOTE FOR THE PERSON WOULD COULD WIN.

JOE CERRELL>> AND ANYWHERE FROM $25 MILLION TO $40 MILLION DOLLARS OF TAXPAYER MONEY, NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT THE GOVERNOR, IF HE WAS SUCCESSFUL, COULD GO TO THE STATE AND SAY, BY THE WAY, REIMBURSE ME FOR THE AMOUNT -- THIS IS MAKING US LOOK LIKE --

VAL>> -- I’M SORRY, THE GOVERNOR COULD GET REIMBURSED FOR THE AMOUNT HE SPENDS TO RUN IN THE RECALL CAMPAIGN?

JOE CERRELL>> IF HE PREVAILS.

ARNOLD STEINBERG>> AND, OF COURSE, HE DOESN’T RUN TERRIBLY COST-EFFECTIVE CAMPAIGNS, YOU KNOW. HE’S A BIG SPENDER.

JOE CERRELL>> WELL, IT WAS CERTAINLY MORE COST-EFFECTIVE THAN BILL SIMON WHO WASTED AN AWFUL LOT OF MONEY. THIS IS LIKE A BANANA REPUBLIC. HEY, WE DON’T LIKE WHAT TOOK PLACE. WE DON’T LIKE THE GUY WHO’S SITTING UP THERE AND WE’RE GOING TO CHANGE THE GOVERNMENT. I MEAN, IT MAKES US LOOK RIDICULOUS.

ARNOLD STEINBERG>> LOOK, BANANA REPUBLICANS ARE VIOLENT. THEY DON’T HAVE A CONSTITUTIONALLY MANDATED RECALL.

JOE CERRELL>> IT MAKES US LOOK RIDICULOUS.

JESS>> WE’RE TALKING COUPS INSTEAD OF RECALL (LAUGHTER).

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) WHAT DOES GOVERNOR DAVIS THINK OF THIS OR IS HE JUST BEING SILENT?

JOE CERRELL>> HE FILED HIS PAPERS. HE’S ENTITLED ON THE PETITION PAPERS --

VAL>> -- FILED HIS OFFICIAL RESPONSE PAPERS?

JOE CERRELL>> YEAH, HE’S GOT AN OFFICIAL --

ARNOLD STEINBERG>> HE HAD A TOUGH CHOICE. HE RESPONDED. HE COULD HAVE SIMPLY SAID, YOU KNOW, I’M NOT GOING TO DIGNIFY THIS WITH A RESPONSE. NOW, OF COURSE, THEY JUST HAD A SIMPLE SESSION FOR THE RECALL BECAUSE THEY NEVER DID ANY POLLING OR FOCUS GROUPS TO SAY WHAT ARE THE VITAL PUSH ISSUES WE SHOULD PUT ON. DAVIS SHOULD HAVE SAID I’M NOT GOING TO DIGNIFY THIS WITH A REPLY, BUT HE DID REPLY.

JOE CERRELL>> YOU KNOW THAT ALL THE MEDIA --

VAL>> -- WHAT DID HE SAY?

ARNOLD STEINBERG>> WHAT JOE SAYS.

JOE CERRELL>> ALL THE MEDIA SO FAR HAVE EITHER BEEN NEUTRAL OR OPPOSE IT. THERE IS NO MAJOR PERSON OF STATURE IN ANY POLITICAL PARTY WHO’S COME OUT FOR THIS. NOBODY. NO EDUCATOR. NOT A SINGLE SOLITARY BUSINESSMAN FROM THE OREGON TO THE MEXICAN BORDER --

ARNOLD STEINBERG>> -- WELL, JOE IS QUITE RIGHT, BUT ONE OF THE REASONS IS --

VAL>> -- FINAL WORD.

ARNOLD STEINBERG>> THESE RECALL PEOPLE DIDN’T GO CULTIVATE THE MEDIA AND GIVE THEM SOME OWNERSHIP OF THE ISSUE.

JOE CERRELL>> AND WE’RE NOT GOING TO TURN IT OVER TO THEM.

ARNOLD STEINBERG>> THE ONE THING YOU DON’T WANT TO DO WITH EDITORIAL BOARD RUNNERS IS HAVE THEM READ ABOUT IT IN THE NEWSPAPERS FIRST (LAUGHTER).

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) JOE CERRELL AND ARNOLD STEINBERG, ALWAYS FUN TO HAVE YOU ON THE SHOW. THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU.

ARNOLD STEINBERG>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

JOE CERRELL>> APPRECIATE IT.

TO SEND A COMMENT OR A QUESTION TO OUR PROGRAM, YOU CAN REACH US BY MAIL AT THIS ADDRESS:

LIFE AND TIMES
4401 SUNSET BLVD.
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90027

YOU CAN ALSO CALL OUR VIEWER COMMENT LINE (323) 953-5555) OR CONTACT US THE FAST WAY BY E-MAIL AT KCET.ORG.

JESS>> SIXTY-ONE YEARS AGO TODAY IN RESPONSE TO FEARS ABOUT HOMELAND SECURITY, PRESIDENT FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT SIGNED EXECUTIVE ORDER 9066 AND, WITH A STROKE OF THE PRESIDENT’S PEN, BEGAN A GRIM CHAPTER IN CALIFORNIA’S HISTORY.

VAL>> 9066, IN EFFECT, AUTHORIZED THE INTERNMENT OF JAPANESE-AMERICANS DURING WORLD WAR TWO. NOW A BOOK CALLED “IN AMERICA’S SHADOW” TELLS THE STORY IN A POIGNANT AND PERSONAL WAY. IT’S WRITTEN FOR YOUNG PEOPLE AND INCORPORATES THE EXPERIENCE OF THE KOMATSU FAMILY. HERE’S AN EXCERPT FROM THE BOOK, AS READ BY THE AUTHORS, KIMBERLY AND KALEIGH KOMATSU.

KIMBERLY AND KALEIGH KOMATSU>> MANY, MANY YEARS AGO, WHEN STREETS WERE DIRT ROADS, WHEN WAGON WHEELS TURNED AND BUFFALO ROAMED AND THINGS WERE VERY DIFFERENT, MY GRANDFATHER AND GRANDMOTHER LEFT THEIR HOME IN JAPAN TO COME TO AMERICA. THEIR HEARTS LONGED FOR ADVENTURE. TO THE WIND, THEY TOSSED UNCERTAINTY FOR THERE WERE TOO MANY DREAMS TO BE DREAMED, TOO MANY WINDING ROADS AWAITED THE SOUND OF THEIR FOOTSTEPS.

THAT WAS A VERY LONG TIME AGO, GRANDFATHER SAYS TO ME. THE UNITED STATES IS IN A TERRIBLE WAR AND THE GOVERNMENT HAS ISSUED EXECUTIVE ORDER 9066. THIS MEANS THAT WE WILL HAVE TO LEAVE EVERYTHING BEHIND AND GO LIVE IN A PLACE CALLED AN INTERNMENT CAMP. ALL WE CAN TAKE IS WHAT WE CAN CARRY AND WHAT WE CAN CARRY IS ALL THAT WE WILL HAVE LEFT IN THIS WORLD. DO NOT BE AFRAID, GRANDFATHER SAYS TO ME. 9066 IS ONLY A NUMBER AND NOTHING MORE. IT CANNOT TAKE AWAY WHO WE ARE, BUT I KNOW IT IS THE NUMBER THAT WILL CHANGE OUR LIVES FOREVER.

IT IS A STRANGE AND SAD FEELING TO WAKE UP ONE DAY AND REALIZE THAT YOU ARE NOT FREE. FOR MANY MONTHS, WE HAVE LIVED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DESERT IN A PLACE CALLED MANZANAR. SOMETIMES THE WIND BLOWS AND BLOWS AND IT FEELS AS IF WE WILL BLOW AWAY WITH IT. EVERYONE TRIES THEIR BEST TO MAKE THIS PLACE A HOME. IN SCHOOL, WE PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE ONE AND ONLY FLAG OF OUR ONLY COUNTRY. WE ARE STILL AMERICANS, THOUGH NO ONE ELSE THINKS SO.

GRANDFATHER TELLS ME THE DESERT IS A BEAUTIFUL PLACE, BUT ALL I SEE IS DUST THAT STINGS THE EYES. HOW CAN I FIND BEAUTY WHEN THERE SEEMS TO BE NONE? LOOK BEYOND THE BARBED WIRE, GRANDFATHER SAYS TO ME. LOOK BEYOND THE BARBED WIRE AND YOU WILL BEGIN TO SEE. MAYBE ONE DAY WHEN I AM ALL GROWN UP, A CHILD WILL COME AND ASK ME WHAT IT MEANS TO BE AN AMERICAN. I WILL REMEMBER THIS TIME AND PLACE AND PEOPLE AND I WILL TELL THEIR STORIES. I WILL TELL THIS CHILD THAT YOU CANNOT IMPRISON A SPIRIT THAT REFUSES TO BE IMPRISONED. THIS IS A PROMISE I MAKE, TO KEEP THE PAST ALIVE. GRANDFATHER TAKES MY HAND IN HIS AND TOGETHER WE WALK BEYOND THE BARBED WIRE.

JESS>> JOINING US NOW ARE THE SISTERS YOU JUST HEARD READING FROM THEIR BOOK, KIMBERLY AND KALEIGH KOMATSU. THE PHOTOGRAPHS ARE REALLY EXTRAORDINARY. WHERE DID YOU ACQUIRE THOSE?

KIMBERLY KOMATSU>> WELL, WHEN WE ORIGINALLY STARTED OUR PROJECT, WE WENT FIRST TO OUR FAMILY ARCHIVES AND THAT WAS THE MOST MEANINGFUL AND THE MOST ACCESSIBLE. SO WE DREW FROM THERE FIRST AND THEN WE WENT TO DIFFERENT MUSEUMS AND DIFFERENT ARCHIVES AND BASICALLY THAT’S HOW WE DID OUR RESEARCH.

VAL>> AND WHAT KIND OF IMPACT DO YOU HOPE THIS BOOK WILL HAVE? 9066 IS, I GUESS, A VERY MEANINGFUL DATE FOR JAPANESE-AMERICANS, YES?

KALEIGH KOMATSU>> WELL, WE HOPE THAT, YOU KNOW, IT WILL NOT ONLY BE A COMMEMORATION AND A DEDICATION TO THOSE WHO LIVED THROUGH IT, BUT ALSO WE HOPE THAT, FOR MANY YOUNG PEOPLE TODAY, IT WILL SPARK THEIR INTEREST IN JUST TALKING TO THEIR FAMILIES.

KIMBERLY KOMATSU>> DOCUMENTING THEIR OWN FAMILY STORIES, GOING TO THEIR GRANDPARENTS AND SAYING TELL ME YOUR STORY, YOU KNOW? I WANT TO HEAR YOUR OWN HISTORY.

VAL>> AND THAT’S WHY YOU WROTE IT ESPECIALLY FOR CHILDREN AND YOUNG ADULTS? YOU WANTED TO REACH THEM?

KIMBERLY KOMATSU>> YES. WE WANTED TO BE ABLE TO REALLY REACH THEM ON AN EMOTIONAL LEVEL TO UNDERSTAND THE STORY FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF A CHILD, SO THAT’S ANOTHER REASON WHY WE CHOSE TO TELL IT THROUGH A CHILD AND THE GRANDFATHER BECAUSE I THINK IT’S A TIMELESS RELATIONSHIP. IT’S SOMETHING THAT, HOPEFULLY, ALL OF US WILL HAVE, YOU KNOW, WITH OUR OWN PARENTS OR OUR OWN GRANDPARENTS AND BE ABLE TO HEAR THEIR STORIES.

JESS>> LET ME ASK YOU, FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF TWO SISTERS THREE GENERATIONS AWAY FROM THIS, WHEN PEOPLE TELL YOU THAT THE JUSTIFICATION FOR THE INTERNMENT WAS BECAUSE WE WANTED TO PROTECT THE LIVES OF THE JAPANESE WHO MIGHT BE ATTACKED, DID YOUR ANCESTORS BELIEVE THAT?

KALEIGH KOMATSU>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, IT’S REALLY HARD TO LOOK AT A SITUATION WITHOUT OUR OWN IDEALS AND VALUES OF TODAY. SO I THINK WE TRIED TO PORTRAY IT VERY OBJECTIVELY AND TO FULLY TRY TO DEAL WITH THE HUMAN EMOTIONS INVOLVED AND EVERYTHING.

VAL>> IT’S PROBABLY HARD TO KNOW WHAT THEY ACTUALLY BELIEVED AT THE TIME. WE’RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT SOME OTHER PHOTOGRAPHS THAT YOU GATHERED TOGETHER FOR THE BOOK. THIS IS A PICTURE, I GUESS, OF A STREET? I DON’T KNOW WHAT CITY, BUT JUST COMPLETELY DESERTED, IS THAT RIGHT?

KIMBERLY KOMATSU>> YES. THIS WAS, I THINK, SEATTLE. YOU CAN JUST TELL THE DESOLATION AFTER WHAT HAPPENED. MOST PEOPLE LOST THEIR HOMES AND THEIR BUSINESSES.

KALEIGH KOMATSU>> COMMUNITIES VIRTUALLY JUST DISAPPEARED FROM THE LANDSCAPE.

VAL>> THAT’S AMAZING. THE NEXT ONE HERE IS -- THAT’S BEAUTIFUL. THAT’S A PICTURE OF A GENTLEMAN IN THE FOREGROUND THERE WITH THE SUITCASES.

KIMBERLY KOMATSU>> THIS IS --

JESS>> -- MANZANAR?

KIMBERLY KOMATSU>> NO, THIS IS ACTUALLY IN WYOMING. THE STORY ALSO SHARED THE STORY OF JAPANESE IMMIGRATING TO AMERICA AND HOW THEY CONTRIBUTED TO THE BUILDING OF AMERICA, SO IT GOES BACK TO THAT TIME AND REALLY EXPLAINS, I THINK, THE HISTORY THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE DON’T KNOW ABOUT --

VAL>> -- AND PEOPLE MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO TELL THAT THOSE ARE BUFFALO IN THE BACKGROUND (LAUGHTER). NOW THIS IS A VERY INTERESTING PICTURE, IF PEOPLE CAN MAKE IT OUT. THERE ARE NATIVE-AMERICANS THERE, IS THAT RIGHT? AND ALSO ARE THERE JAPANESE --

KALEIGH KOMATSU>> -- WE REALLY WANTED TO SHOW THE AMERICAN LANDSCAPE AND PART OF IT WAS --

KIMBERLY KOMATSU>> -- THE DIVERSITY OF INDIVIDUALS THAT MADE UP AMERICA, THAT CONTRIBUTED TO THE BUILDING OF AMERICA, SO WE DEFINITELY WANTED TO EMPHASIZE THAT.

JESS>> YOUR TIMING, OBVIOUSLY, IS VERY GOOD, BUT AREN’T YOU ALSO NOTICING A GREATER RECOGNITION FOR THE INJUSTICE AND ALSO AN EFFORT TO RESTORE BUILDINGS THERE AND TO CREATE A MAJOR CENTER THERE IN MANZANAR?

KALEIGH KOMATSU>> THAT’S RIGHT.

KIMBERLY KOMATSU>> I THINK WE’RE DEFINITELY COMING TO A TIME IN OUR OWN CULTURE AND SOCIETY THAT WE WANT TO REFLECT ON THE PAST. WE WANT TO LOOK TOWARDS THESE KIND OF UNSPOKEN STORIES AND REALLY HEAR THOSE VOICES FROM THE PAST. I THINK AS THE OLDER GENERATIONS ARE PASSING ON, IT BECOMES SO IMPORTANT TO DOCUMENT THESE STORIES.

VAL>> KIMBERLY AND KALEIGH KOMATSU, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR A BEAUTIFUL CONTRIBUTION TO LAST FOREVER.

KIMBERLY KOMATSU>> THANK YOU.

KALEIGH KOMATSU>> THANK YOU.

JESS>> THE BOOK IS CALLED “IN AMERICA’S SHADOW”. IT’S BEING RELEASED TODAY TO COINCIDE WITH THE SIXTY-FIRST ANNIVERSARY OF EXECUTIVE ORDER 9066.

VAL>> AND YOU CAN FIND IT IN THE JAPANESE-AMERICAN NATIONAL MUSEUM.

A REMINDER THAT YOU CAN FIND TRANSCRIPTS OF OUR RECENT PROGRAMS. GO TO OUR WEBSITE AT KCET.ORG.

JESS>> AND THAT’S TONIGHT’S PROGRAM. NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, THANK YOU AND GOOD NIGHT.

LIFE AND TIMES WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

TO REACH US AT LIFE AND TIMES, CALL 323-953-5555. SEND US AN E-MAIL TO LIFEANDTIMES@KCET.ORG OR LOG ONTO OUR WEBSITE AT WWW.KCET.ORG TO SEND MESSAGES OR DOWNLOAD TRANSCRIPTS OF TONIGHT’S PROGRAM.