2/18/03

LC030218

VAL ZAVALA>> TONIGHT ON LIFE AND TIMES --

JESS MARLOW>> A “GET OUT OF JAIL” CARD FOR SCORES OF CALIFORNIA PRISON INMATES. IT COULD HELP TO FIX THE STATE’S BUDGET PROBLEMS, BUT WILL WE PAY THE PRICE LATER?

RICHARD WORD>> THIS DOESN’T MAKE SENSE TO ME. IF WE HAVE A BURGLAR IN CUSTODY WHO HE OR SHE IS SENTENCED FOR NINE MONTHS AND WE SAY TO THIS BURGLAR WE’RE GOING TO LET YOU OUT EARLY WITHIN SIX MONTHS, HE’S STILL A BURGLAR.

VAL>> AND THEN THE GROWING CALL FOR PEACE IN THE FACE OF A LIKELY WAR WITH IRAQ. WE’LL GET A CLERGYMAN’S VIEW ON HOW RELIGION MAY BECOME A KEY FACTOR.

JESS>> PLUS, TAKING THE MEASURE OF AMERICA INCH BY INCH.

VAL>> IT’S ALL STRAIGHT AHEAD ON TONIGHT’S LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> SENDING CONVICTS HOME EARLY TO SAVE THE STATE SOME MONEY. THAT’S THE TALK IN SACRAMENTO.

JESS>> BUT IS THE CALIFORNIA PRISON SYSTEM THE RIGHT PLACE TO EFFECT BUDGET CUTS? SOME SAY THERE IS MINIMAL RISK TO THE PUBLIC, SINCE ONLY INMATES CONVICTED OF NON-VIOLENT CRIMES WOULD BE ELIGIBLE FOR EARLY RELEASE. BUT AS JEFFREY KAYE REPORTS, THERE IS MORE AT STAKE HERE THAN JUST SAVING MONEY.

JEFFREY KAYE>> OVER THE LAST TWENTY YEARS, CALIFORNIA STATE PRISONS HAVE BEEN A GROWTH INDUSTRY. AS THE INMATE POPULATION SWELLED, THE STATE BUILT ON AVERAGE ONE PRISON A YEAR. TODAY ABOUT 160,000 INMATES ARE PACKED INTO THIRTY-THREE STATE PRISONS. THE ANNUAL BILL FOR THE OVERCROWDED SYSTEM IS $5 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR, BUT WITH THE CALIFORNIA STATE GOVERNMENT FACING ITS BIGGEST DEFICIT IN HISTORY -- IT COULD BE AS MUCH AS $35 BILLION DOLLARS IN THE RED -- MANY LAWMAKERS ARE ADVOCATING WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN POLITICALLY UNTHINKABLE NOT LONG AGO, CUTTING THE BUDGET FOR PRISONS.

SENATOR GLORIA ROMERO>> THE BUDGET GIVES US AN OPPORTUNITY TO EXAMINE THE SUCCESS AND THE FAILURE OF OUR CORRECTIONAL SYSTEM.

JEFFREY KAYE>> CALIFORNIA STATE SENATOR, GLORIA ROMERO, OF LOS ANGELES CHAIRS A NEW LEGISLATIVE COMMITTEE EVALUATING CALIFORNIA’S PRISON SYSTEM. SHE SAYS IT’S TIME TO SCRUTINIZE PRISONS SINCE JUST ABOUT EVERY OTHER CALIFORNIA STATE PROGRAM IS BEING CUT.

SENATOR GLORIA ROMERO>> IT’S NOT JUST CUTTING. IT IS LITERALLY SLASHING SERVICES FOR POOR PEOPLE, FOR CHILDREN, FOR THE ELDERLY. HOW DO WE EXPLAIN THE SLASHING OF THESE SERVICES AT A TIME WHEN ONE DEPARTMENT IN PARTICULAR, CORRECTIONS, IS ACTUALLY ENJOYING AN INCREASE IN FUNDING?

JEFFREY KAYE>> ROMERO IS PARTICULARLY CRITICAL OF WHAT SHE CONSIDERS A BROKEN AND COSTLY PAROLE SYSTEM. CALIFORNIA RECYCLES INMATES AT THE HIGHEST RATES IN THE NATION. ON A RECENT MORNING, AT THE STORIED SAN QUENTIN PRISON IN NORTHERN CALIFORNIA, MEN RELEASED ON PAROLE BOARDED A VAN BOUND FOR FREEDOM. BUT BASED ON STATISTICS, MOST WILL SOON BE BACK. SOON AFTER ONE GROUP OF INMATES LEFT, ANOTHER ARRIVED, ALL OF THEM PAROLEES BEING RE-ADMITTED, LIKE JAMES MURPHY. TWENTY DAYS AFTER BEING RELEASED ON PAROLE, HE WAS BACK IN FOR PETTY THEFT.

JAMES MURPHY>> THEY HAD NO PLACE FOR ME TO GO. AS SOON AS I HIT THE STREETS, I HAD NOWHERE TO GO, NOWHERE.

>> WHAT’S YOUR LAST NAME? WHAT’S YOUR NUMBER?

JEFFREY KAYE>> TWO-THIRDS OF THE INMATES IN CALIFORNIA STATE PRISONS RETURN WHILE ON PAROLE, MANY WITH NEW CHARGES, MOST BECAUSE THEY VIOLATED PAROLE CONDITIONS. HOUSING THEM IS COSTLY, AN AVERAGE OF $28,500 A YEAR FOR EACH INMATE. TO SAVE MONEY, SOME DEMOCRATIC LEGISLATORS FAVOR PROGRAMS THAT WOULD RETURN FEWER PAROLEES TO PRISON. THEY ALSO WANT TO RELEASE MANY NON-VIOLENT CONVICTS ONE MONTH EARLY AND OTHERS FOR GOOD BEHAVIOR. STEPHEN GREEN SPEAKS FOR THE CALIFORNIA YOUTH AND ADULT CORRECTIONAL AGENCY AND FOR THE DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR, GRAY DAVIS.

GRAY DAVIS>> SO I PROPOSE THIS YEAR THAT WE PUT EVEN MORE POLICE OFFICERS AND SHERIFF DEPUTIES ON THE STREETS.

JEFFREY KAYE>> DAVIS HAS LONG PRIDED HIMSELF ON HIS UNCOMPROMISING TOUGH-ON-CRIME POLICIES AND HAS COME OUT IN STRONG OPPOSITION TO EARLY RELEASE PROGRAMS.

STEPHEN GREEN>> I THINK THE DEBATE IS REALLY FRAMED WRONGLY. SENTENCING IS WHAT WE’RE TALKING ABOUT WHEN WE’RE TALKING ABOUT LETTING PEOPLE OUT EARLY. IF WE HAVE SENTENCING LAWS THAT ARE UNJUST, THEN THOSE LAWS OUGHT TO BE REPEALED AS A MATTER OF FAIRNESS. BUT SIMPLY TO SAY, WELL, IN GOOD TIMES WE CAN HAVE TOUGH SENTENCING LAWS AND IN POOR TIMES WE’LL HAVE TO LET THE CROOKS OUT, THAT DOESN’T MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME.

JEFFREY KAYE>> GREEN SAYS EARLY RELEASE PROGRAMS WON’T WORK. HE POINTS TO KENTUCKY WHICH RELEASED NEARLY NINE HUNDRED PRISONERS EARLY, BUT AFTER REVELATIONS THAT NEW PAROLEES HAD BEEN CHARGED WITH BANK ROBBERY AND RAPE, PUBLIC OUTRAGE FORCED AN EMBARRASSED GOVERNOR TO CANCEL THE PROGRAM. IN CALIFORNIA, LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS ARE SKEPTICAL ABOUT EARLY RELEASE PROPOSALS. POLICE IN THE CITY OF OAKLAND GRAPPLING WITH THE HIGH CRIME RATE HAVE LINKED PAROLEES TO HALF OF LAST YEAR’S 113 MURDERS. OAKLAND’S POLICE CHIEF, RICHARD WORD, SAYS THAT UNDER THE CURRENT SYSTEM, AN EARLY RELEASE PROGRAM COULD BE A COSTLY MISTAKE.

RICHARD WORD>> IT JUST DOESN’T MAKE SENSE TO ME. IF YOU HAVE A BURGLAR IN CUSTODY AND HE OR SHE IS SENTENCED FOR NINE MONTHS AND YOU SAY TO THIS BURGLAR WE’RE GOING TO LET YOU OUT EARLY WITHIN SIX MONTHS, HE’S STILL A BURGLAR IN MY VIEW. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO ENSURE THAT THIS PERSON WOULD NOT RE-OFFEND? PROBABLY NOT MUCH, AND THAT’S THE QUESTION WE SHOULD ASK.

JEFFREY KAYE>> THAT QUESTION IS REKINDLING AN OLD DEBATE ABOUT PUNISHMENT VERSUS REHABILITATION FOR PRISONERS. CONVICTS SAY THE EMPHASIS ON PUNISHMENT TRANSLATES TO TOO FEW PROGRAMS ON THE INSIDE TO PREPARE INMATES FOR RELEASE AND TOO LITTLE ASSISTANCE ON THE OUTSIDE FOR PAROLEES.

FREDERICK SMITH>> AND ONCE THEY’RE ON PAROLE, THERE’S VIRTUALLY NOTHING OUT THERE TO GIVE THEM AN INCENTIVE TO STAY OUT. THE SYSTEM IS SORT OF SET UP TO BE SELF-DEFEATING TO KEEP A PERPETUAL REVOLVING DOOR GOING OF PRISONERS.

KEN RUSSO>> PAROLE IS DESIGNED TO EASE YOUR TRANSITION BACK TO PRISON. IT’S NOT DESIGNED FOR YOUR TRANSITION INTO SOCIETY. YOU CAN’T GIVE A MAN $200 AND SAY, OKAY, THERE YOU GO. TAKE CARE OF BUSINESS NOW.

EVANS YANCY>> THERE’S NO REHABILITATION NO MORE. IT’S DESIGNED NOW TO JUST WAREHOUSE PEOPLE. THIS IS NOTHING BUT ONE BIG WAREHOUSE AND THERE AIN’T NOBODY GETTING FAT BUT THE GOVERNMENT.

>> WHAT WE’RE GOING TO DO TODAY, WHICH SOME OF YOU KNOW, IS WE’RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT HOW YOU CAN GET OFF PAROLE.

JEFFREY KAYE>> PAROLE AGENTS WHO SUPERVISE RELEASED CONVICTS HAVE LOW EXPECTATIONS. IN OAKLAND, ONE OF THE FEW EXISTING STATE PROGRAMS FOR PAROLEES TRIES TO MATCH UP FORMER INMATES WITH JOBS, HOUSING AND DRUG TREATMENT PROGRAMS.

D.R. ELLIOTT>> SOME OF YOU GUYS I KNOW. YOU’VE BEEN ON MY CASELOAD. SOME OF YOU GUYS I’VE EVEN ARRESTED IN YOUR HOMES.

JEFFREY KAYE>> BUT PAROLE AGENT, D.R. ELLIOTT, A VETERAN PRISON GUARD, SAYS WITHOUT MORE JOBS AND ASSISTANCE FOR EX-CONS, THE REVOLVING DOOR WILL KEEP TURNING. FOR HIS OWN CASELOAD, ONLY TWENTY-FIVE OUT OF SEVENTY-TWO INMATES GOT OFF PAROLE.

JEFFREY KAYE>> TWENTY-FIVE OUT OF SEVENTY-TWO DOESN’T SOUND LIKE A GREAT GRADE.

D.R. ELLIOTT>> YOU KNOW, TO YOU IT DOESN’T, BUT LIKE I SAID BEFORE, IF I GET ONE TO STAY OUT, I’VE DONE ALL RIGHT BECAUSE HE’S GOING TO HELP SOMEBODY ELSE AND SOMEBODY ELSE. AND WHAT HE’S GOING TO DO, HE’S GOING TO TALK TO HIS KIDS. HE’S GOING TO TALK TO SOMEBODY ELSE’S KIDS AND THAT’S WHERE WE START AT AGAIN. WE START AT THE KIDS, WE WORK OUR WAY UP.

>> YOU’RE GOING TO HAVE TO MULTIPLY HERE AND I’M GOING TO PUT ONE OF YOU . . .

JEFFREY KAYE>> CALIFORNIA PRISON OFFICIALS SAY THEY WOULD PROVIDE MORE REHABILITATION IF THEY HAD MORE MONEY. THE FEW EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMS THAT DO EXIST IN CALIFORNIA PRISONS ARE BEING CUT. AT THE SAME TIME, THE PRISON BUDGET IS INCREASING FOR SUCH EXPENSES AS MEDICAL CARE, PRISON MAINTENANCE AND SALARIES FOR PRISON GUARDS.

JESS>> AS MENTIONED, THE FOCUS IS ON INMATES CONVICTED OF NON-VIOLENT CRIMES, BUT WE’RE ALSO TOLD THE STATE MAY PAY SPECIAL ATTENTION TO ELDERLY PRISONERS AND THOSE WHO ARE PHYSICALLY ILL. BOTH MAY BE CONSIDERED GOOD CANDIDATES FOR EARLY RELEASE.

VAL>> TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, WE’LL GET THE SCOOP ON L.A.’S NEWEST NEWSPAPER AND HEAR FROM A WRITER WHO SAYS IT’S TIME FOR SOME NEW BLOOD ON THE MEDIA FRONT.

>> I CAN PREDICT THE STORIES ON A WEEKLY BASIS. I DON’T HAVE TO READ THEM. YOU KNOW, I DO READ THEM, I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY’RE GOING TO SAY. I KNOW WHAT THE END CONCLUSION IS GOING TO BE. THERE ARE NO SURPRISES. WE NEED MEDIA THAT’S GOT SURPRISES IN IT AND GIVES US ACTUAL NEWS. NEWS, MEANING NEW INFORMATION. YOU KNOW, THAT’S WHAT WE NEED.

JESS>> TODAY THE LOS ANGELES CITY COUNCIL JOINED THE DEBATE OVER A U.S. WAR IN IRAQ AND, LIKE THE REST OF THE COUNTRY, THE COUNCIL SPLIT DOWN THE MIDDLE ON THE RESOLUTION OPPOSING THE WAR. THE MEASURE FELL ONE VOTE SHORT OF APPROVAL AND WILL BE CONSIDERED AGAIN ON FRIDAY. THE PAST FEW DAYS HAVE PRODUCED SCORES OF ANTI-WAR PROTESTS, BOTH HERE AT HOME AND AROUND THE WORLD. PRESIDENT BUSH SAYS HE RESPECTS THOSE WHO’VE TAKEN PART IN THE MARCHES, BUT HE SAYS AMERICA MUST STAND FOR PRINCIPLE EVEN IF IT MEANS WAR.

VAL>> NOW HERE IN LOS ANGELES, RELIGIOUS LEADERS FROM A HALF DOZEN DENOMINATIONS MET TO ORGANIZE A MAJOR NEW PEACE INITIATIVE. JOINING US NOW IS THE KEYNOTE SPEAKER OF THAT MEETING THAT TOOK PLACE YESTERDAY, THE MOST REVEREND THOMAS GUMBLETON. HE IS A ROMAN CATHOLIC AUXILIARY BISHOP FROM DETROIT. WELCOME TO LOS ANGELES.

BISHOP THOMAS GUMBLETON>> THANK YOU, VAL.

JESS>> ARE YOU SURPRISED AT THE GROWTH OF THE PEACE MOVEMENT?

BISHOP THOMAS GUMBLETON>> NO, I’M REALLY NOT. MY EXPERIENCE IN TRAVELING AROUND THE COUNTRY TELLS ME THAT, IN FACT, THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY ARE AGAINST THE WAR. SO WHEN THEY SEE THE PRESIDENT CONTINUING TO MOVE FORWARD TOWARD WAR, PEOPLE FEEL THEY HAVE TO COME OUT INTO THE STREETS AND SHOW THAT WE DON’T WANT IT TO HAPPEN.

JESS>> THEY HAVEN’T FOUND THAT THEY’RE INFLUENCING HIM GREATLY.

BISHOP THOMAS GUMBLETON>> NO, THAT’S TRUE SO FAR, BUT I DON’T KNOW IF HE’S GOING TO BE ABLE TO CONTINUE TO RESIST THE TENS OF THOUSANDS, THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS AND EVEN MILLIONS OF PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO KEEP ON RESISTING AND PROTESTING THIS WAR. MY HOPE IS THAT HE WILL RECONSIDER. AMONG THOSE WHO’VE PROTESTED, YOU KNOW, ARE SOME OF OUR FORMER GENERALS, PEOPLE LIKE GENERAL SCHWARTZKOFF, PEOPLE LIKE GENERAL ZINNI. THEY’RE SAYING THIS WAR WOULD BE A HORRENDOUS MISTAKE. SO IF HE WON’T LISTEN TO ALL OF US SO-CALLED ORDINARY PEOPLE, I HOPE HE WOULD LISTEN TO SOME OF HIS FORMER GENERALS WHO FOUGHT IN THE FIRST PERSIAN GULF WAR, GENERAL SCHWARTZKOFF ANYWAY.

VAL>> NOW ONE OF THE BIG ISSUES AT THE MEETING WAS HOW WIDE SHOULD YOU MAKE THIS ANTI-WAR PEACE MOVEMENT. SHOULD YOU CONFINE IT TO JUST TRYING TO STOP THE WAR IN IRAQ OR SHOULD YOU WIDEN IT OUT TO NUCLEAR DISARMAMENT, HUMAN RIGHTS, MILITARY SPENDING VERSUS SOCIAL SPENDING? WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE WAY TO GO?

BISHOP THOMAS GUMBLETON>> OH, MY VERY STRONG CONVICTION IS THAT THE CURRENT THREAT TO GO TO WAR IS ONLY A SMALL PIECE OF THE MUCH LARGER PICTURE THAT WE HAVE TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT. WE'RE LIVING IN A WORLD THAT'S BECOMING MORE AND MORE DANGEROUS EVERY DAY BECAUSE OF THE PROLIFERATION OF WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION -- IRAQ IS JUST ONE TINY EXAMPLE -- AND ESPECIALLY THE FACT THAT THE UNITED STATES ITSELF HAS VIOLATED THE NONPROLIFERATION TREATY BY DECLARING, AS WE DID A YEAR AGO IN OCTOBER IN OUR NUCLEAR POSTURE STATEMENT, THAT WE WOULD ATTACK NON-NUCLEAR NATIONS WITH NUCLEAR WEAPONS. THAT'S A CLEAR VIOLATION OF THE NONPROLIFERATION TREATY.

ONE OF THE REASONS WHY COUNTRIES THROUGHOUT THE WORLD SIGNED UP FOR THAT TREATY AND SAID WE'LL NEVER DEVELOP THESE WEAPONS IS BECAUSE THEY WERE GUARANTEED THEY WOULD NOT BE ATTACKED BY A NUCLEAR ARMED NATION. SO WHEN WE SAY, AND WE LISTED FOREIGN NATIONS THAT WE ARE READY TO ATTACK AND THEY'RE NOT NUCLEAR ARMED, WE'RE SAYING, ALMOST INVITING THEM, YOU'D BETTER GET YOUR NUCLEAR ARMS. WELL, THIS BEGINS TO SPREAD. AS IT IS, WE HAVE NORTH KOREA NOW. WE JUST RECENTLY HAD INDIA AND PAKISTAN ADDED TO THE NUCLEAR ARMED NATIONS AND OTHER NATIONS WILL FOLLOW SUIT. IT'S GOING TO BECOME AN EVER MORE DANGEROUS WORLD. WE HAVE TO GET BACK TO THE POINT WHERE WE REALLY TAKE SERIOUSLY THE NEED TO ABOLISH NUCLEAR WEAPONS FROM THE WHOLE FACE OF THE EARTH.

JESS>> YOU'VE MADE A NUMBER OF TRIPS TO IRAQ, MOST RECENTLY IN JANUARY?

BISHOP THOMAS GUMBLETON>> YES.

JESS>> WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE US DO?

BISHOP THOMAS GUMBLETON>> WELL, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT WE COULD DO WOULD BE TO CONTINUE THE INSPECTIONS. THEY, IN FACT, HAVE PROVED SUCCESSFUL. WE REALLY WANT TO GET RID OF THE NUCLEAR WEAPONS OR ANY WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN IRAQ. CONTINUE THE PATH THAT WE'RE ON. WE'RE MOVING IN THAT DIRECTION. EVEN WHEN THE INSPECTORS LEFT IN 1998 BECAUSE WE WERE GOING TO BOMB IRAQ AT THAT POINT, THOSE INSPECTORS SAID THAT THEY HAVE NO LONGER ANY NUCLEAR WEAPONS. NOW THEY DO HAVE SOME OF THE BIOLOGICAL, CHEMICAL WEAPONS, BUT WE CAN CONTINUE TO LOOK AND KEEP OUR PRESENCE.

IT SEEMS TO ME IT MAKES MUCH MORE SENSE TO HAVE INSPECTORS THERE AND PERHAPS SOME PEACEKEEPERS THERE THAN TO HAVE A MILITARY OCCUPATION FORCE. IF WE HAVE INSPECTORS THERE AND OUR PEACEKEEPERS THERE, WE'RE NOT GOING TO ANTAGONIZE THE WHOLE MIDDLE EAST. IF WE GO IN THERE WITH ARMED TROOPS AND WE DEVASTATE THIS COUNTRY ONCE MORE, THEN WE HAVE TO KEEP TROOPS THERE AS AN OCCUPYING FORCE FOR, WELL, OUR GOVERNMENT IS SAYING AT LEAST TWO YEARS, BUT NOBODY KNOWS HOW LONG, WE'RE GOING TO CAUSE THAT AREA OF THE WORLD TO BE JUST ENFLAMED WITH HATRED AND RESENTMENT.

ONE OF THE REASONS FOR SEPTEMBER 11 WAS THE FACT THAT PEOPLE IN SAUDI ARABIA WERE ABSOLUTELY INCENSED, OUTRAGED, BECAUSE WE HAVE KEPT OUR TROOPS ON SAUDI SOIL SINCE 1991 --

JESS>> -- AND THAT JUSTIFIES SEPTEMBER 11?

BISHOP THOMAS GUMBLETON>> IT DOESN'T JUSTIFY IT, BUT --

JESS>> -- OR RATIONALIZE?

BISHOP THOMAS GUMBLETON>> NO. OSAMA BIN LADEN AND THOSE WHO ARE LIKE HIM, THE FUNDAMENTALISTS IN SAUDI ARABIA, FEEL THAT NO, WHAT THEY CALL, INFIDELS SHOULD BE ON THEIR SOIL, SO WHEN WE KEEP THOUSANDS OF TROOPS ON THEIR SOIL, IT'S LIKE WE'RE JUST CONSTANTLY PRODDING THEM WITH SOMETHING THAT MAKES THEM ANGRY. WHY DO THAT? WE NEED TO BACK AWAY AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND SOME OF THEIR FEELINGS AND THEIR RESENTMENTS AGAINST US AND DEAL WITH THAT. THAT'S THE WAY WE COULD END THE TERRORISM.

VAL>> THE MOST REVEREND THOMAS GUMBLETON, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE WITH US TODAY.

BISHOP THOMAS GUMBLETON>> I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY. THANK YOU.

VAL>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

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JESS>> PATT'S BEEN THINKING ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT'S TIPS ON HOW WE CAN ALL DEAL WITH TERRORISM. SHE RANKS THEM RIGHT UP THERE WITH THOSE OTHER WORDS OF WISDOM FROM WASHINGTON: DUCK AND COVER. THAT'S TONIGHT'S INFINITELY MORRISON.

PATT MORRISON>> I WENT TO THE HARDWARE STORE OVER THE WEEKEND TO BUY SOME PLASTIC SHEETING AND I MADE A POINT OF TELLING AL, THE HARDWARE GUY, THAT I WAS BUYING IT TO PROTECT MY HILLSIDE AGAINST THE RAIN, NOT TO PROTECT ME AGAINST SADDAM HUSSEIN'S BIOCHEMISTRY SET. HONEST.

DUCT TAPE AND PLASTIC SHEETING HAVE BEEN SELLING LIKE BATTERIES AND BOTTLED WATER BEFORE A FLORIDA HURRICANE BECAUSE HOMELAND SECURITY CZAR, TOM RIDGE, HAS ADVISED US TO ACQUIRE THEM AS OUR WEAPONS OF MASS PROTECTION AGAINST THE NASTY BUGS AND DRUGS IN THE IRAQI ARSENAL. SO THE SAME ADMINISTRATION THAT HAS REMOVED FROM OFFICIAL WEBSITES INFORMATION ABOUT CONDOMS' EFFECTIVENESS IN PREVENTING THE SPREAD OF AIDS NOW WANTS US TO CONDOMIZE OUR HOUSES.

BEING CALIFORNIAN, I ALREADY HAVE EMERGENCY GOODS AT THE READY, BUT BECAUSE NOT ALL OF US WILL BE AT HOME FOR AN IRAQI ATTACK, I'M ALSO CARRYING A PLASTIC BAG WITH ME AT ALL TIMES SO THAT IF THE ATTACK COMES, SAY, WHEN I'M OUT SHOPPING, I CAN FASTEN IT SECURELY OVER MY HEAD UNTIL THE DANGER PASSES.

YOU WONDER HOW MUCH OF THIS IS SCIENCE AND HOW MUCH OF IT IS JUST THE GOVERNMENT GIVING US BUSY WORK SO WE DON'T WORRY, THE LATEST IN A SERIES OF GOVERNMENT DO-IT-YOURSELF DISASTER SALVATION TECHNIQUES DATING BACK TO THE COLD WAR, LIKE FALLOUT SHELTERS. DIG YOURSELF A BUNKER, FILL IT WITH FOOD AND COMIC BOOKS, AND WAIT OUT THE END OF THE WORLD.

YEARS AFTER FALLOUT SHELTERS WERE BEING TURNED INTO WINE CELLARS, BUT THE DOOMSDAY CLOCK WAS STILL TICKING AWAY, A DEPUTY UNDERSECRETARY OF DEFENSE TO PRESIDENT REAGAN SUGGESTED THIS HOME FRONT NUCLEAR SCENARIO. DIG A HOLE, COVER IT WITH A COUPLE OF DOORS AND THEN THROW THREE FEET OF DIRT ON TOP OF IT. IF THERE ARE ENOUGH SHOVELS TO GO AROUND, EVERYBODY IS GOING TO MAKE IT.

THEN THERE WAS THE RAYBAN PLAN, REAGAN INTERIOR SECRETARY, DONALD HODELL'S IDEA OF PERSONAL PROTECTION. NOT A CONDOM, BUT THIS. PROTECT OURSELVES AGAINST THE ULTRAVIOLET RADIATION MAKING IT THROUGH THE HOLE IN THE OZONE LAYER WITH STRAW HATS, LONG-SLEEVED SHIRTS, SUNSCREEN AND SUNGLASSES.

NOW DUCT TAPE DOES HAVE AN UNSAVORY CRIMINAL PAST APPEARING ON THE TO-DO LIST OF THAT MAILBOX PIPE BOMBER IN THE MIDWEST AND WHOEVER KILLED JONBENET RAMSEY, BUT IT'S ALSO THE INDISPENSABLE TOOL OF THE AMERICAN HANDYMAN. I BET EVEN MARTHA STEWART HAS A ROLL OF IT PACKED IN HER JUMPING-BAIL GETAWAY KIT. SO DON'T BLAME DUCT TAPE. EVEN PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE THE IDEA OF TAPING UP THEIR HOUSES HAVE THEIR OWN IDEAS FOR THE SILVER TAPE THAT DOES IT ALL.

VAL>> IF YOU HAVE EVER FLOWN ACROSS AMERICA, YOU MAY HAVE LOOKED OUT THE WINDOW AND MARVELED AT THE PATCHWORK QUILT BELOW. ALL THOSE TOWNS AND CITIES LAID OUT IN NEAT LITTLE SQUARES. BUT HOW DID THEY GET THAT WAY? TONIGHT OUR NEXT GUEST WILL TELL US.

JESS>> HE HAS WRITTEN A NEW BOOK ABOUT HOW AMERICA CAME TO MEASURE ITSELF. IT'S CALLED, QUITE APPROPRIATELY, "MEASURING AMERICA". THE AUTHOR IS BRITISH HISTORIAN, ANDRO LINKLATER. TONIGHT HE EXPLAINS HOW ALL THOSE INCHES AND FEET ADDED UP TO A BRAND NEW COUNTRY. YOU TALK ABOUT MEASURING AMERICA AS BEING A MAJOR ELEMENT IN FULFILLING THE PROMISE OF DEMOCRACY. HOW SO?

ANDRO LINKLATER>> WELL, I THINK IT'S THE FABRIC, THE FRAMEWORK, AROUND WHICH SOCIETY GREW IN THE NINETEENTH CENTURY. IT'S A VERY STRANGE THING. I FIRST NOTICED THIS WHEN I WAS LIVING IN SAN FRANCISCO. I USED TO FLY TO NEW YORK AN AWFUL LOT AND LOOK OUT OF THE AIRPLANE WINDOW. WHAT DO YOU SEE? YOU SEE THESE SQUARES AND, TO A EUROPEAN, THAT'S A STRANGE SHAPE. YOU KNOW, FIELDS IN EUROPE ARE EVERY SHAPE BUT SQUARE. TOWNS EVERY SHAPE BUT SQUARE. YOU FLY ACROSS THE GREAT CENTRAL VALLEY, YOU SEE ALL THESE SQUARE ORCHARDS. YOU FLY ACROSS SALT LAKE CITY, IT'S SQUARE.

YOU THINK TO YOURSELF -- THE FIRST TIME I NOTICED, IT WAS IN THE 1970'S. I THOUGHT, HEAVENS, THIS IS A MESSAGE TO OUTER SPACE. YOU KNOW, IT WAS THE ONE THING THAT THE ASTRONAUTS SAW. THERE WERE TWO MANMADE OBJECTS THEY COULD SEE FROM SPACE. ONE WAS THE GREAT WALL OF CHINA AND THE OTHER WAS THIS PATTERN OF SQUARES ACROSS THE UNITED STATES. THEY WERE DRAWN IN THE EIGHTEENTH AND NINETEENTH CENTURY WHEN THE UNITED STATES PUBLIC LAND SURVEY MEASURED OUT THE GREAT WILDERNESS IN THE UNITED STATES. IN MEASURING IT OUT, THEY CONVERTED IT INTO PROPERTY.

VAL>> AND THAT IS ONE OF THE FUNDAMENTAL CHANGES THAT YOU TALK ABOUT, THE WHOLE SHIFT IN THE IDEA OF PROPERTY. PROPERTY IS LAND THAT COULD ACTUALLY BE OWNED. THAT WAS A CONCEPT THAT DIDN'T REALLY EXIST, WHAT, THREE OR FOUR HUNDRED YEARS AGO?

ANDRO LINKLATER>> WELL, WHAT IS EXTRAORDINARY IS THAT ANYBODY COULD OWN THIS LAND. IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, REALLY, UP UNTIL THEN, IN THE OLD WORLD, THE PEOPLE WHO HAD THE MOST POWER HAD THE MOST PROPERTY. SO THE KINGS, THE DUKES, THE NOBLES HAD LOTS OF PROPERTY. IF YOU WERE JUST A PEASANT, YOU HAD NO PROPERTY. BUT SUDDENLY, HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, YOU HAD A SOCIETY GROWING UP WHERE ANYONE COULD OWN THIS LAND. THE GOVERNMENT WAS AUCTIONING IT OFF AT TWO DOLLARS AN ACRE. IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE THE CASH TO PAY THE MONEY UP FRONT, YOU GOT IT ON CREDIT. IF YOU COULDN'T EVEN RAISE THE CREDIT, YOU COULD GO AND SQUAT ON THE LAND AND, WHEN THE SURVEY CAME THROUGH, THAT LAND BECAME YOURS.

JESS>> BUT THE SALE OF LAND ALSO HELPED TO FINANCE THIS NATION OF OURS, DIDN'T IT?

ANDRO LINKLATER>> WELL, IT DID. THAT WAS THE ORIGINAL IDEA. IT'S EXPENSIVE GETTING RID OF THE BRITISH, YOU KNOW (LAUGHTER), AND IT COST A LOT OF MONEY TO WIN THAT WAR OF INDEPENDENCE.

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) AND WE'RE STILL HERE.

ANDRO LINKLATER>> (LAUGHTER) AND WE'RE STILL HERE. YOU CAN'T GET RID OF US. BUT THEY HAD DEBTS UP TO THEIR EYEBROWS AT THE END, AND THE ONE ASSET THAT THEY HAD WAS THIS LAND WEST OF THE APPALACHIANS.

JESS>> HOW DID WE COME UP WITH MEASURES?

ANDRO LINKLATER>> WELL, THEY HAD CHOICE, CURIOUSLY. THOMAS JEFFERSON WANTED THEM TO MEASURE OUT IN DECIMAL UNITS IN 1785 JUST AFTER THE INDEPENDENCE'S GAIN, BUT CONGRESS WENT FOR THESE OLD MEASURES AND THEY ARE VERY OLD. I MEAN, ACRES CAME IN IN THE SIXTH CENTURY. THEY SAID WE WILL MEASURE OUT THE LAND IN SQUARES, SO THEY HAD THE 36-SQUARE-MILE TOWN TRIP AND THEN THAT WAS DIVIDED INTO ONE-MILE SECTIONS. I'VE LOOKED IN THE ARCHIVES, IN THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES IN WASHINGTON, AND IT'S EXTRAORDINARY TO ME, AS IT IS IN THE EUROPEAN, WHERE WE ALL HAVE OUR DIFFERENT SYSTEMS. THERE IN THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES, YOU CAN SEE LAND IN LOS ANGELES MEASURED OUT IN THESE SQUARES, IN HALF SECTIONS, QUARTER SECTIONS AND SO ON AND EXACTLY THE SAME THING IS MEASURED OUT OVER TWO THOUSAND MILES AWAY. IT'S THE SAME SYSTEM AND I THINK IT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HELD THE UNITED STATES TOGETHER.

JESS>> A SECTION OF CORNFIELD IN THE MIDWEST IS ONE SQUARE MILE?

ANDRO LINKLATER>> THAT'S CORRECT, 640 ACRES.

VAL>> AND YET JEFFERSON SPECIFICALLY OUTLINED A WHOLE METRIC AND DECIMAL SYSTEM THAT HE WOULD HAVE LOVED TO HAVE SEEN THE UNITED STATES ADOPT, YES?

ANDRO LINKLATER>> YES. IT'S ONE OF THE IRONIES. HERE'S THE UNITED STATES, THE LAST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD TO HOLD OFF THE METRIC SYSTEM. I THINK IT'S YOU AND BURMA PERHAPS. BUT IF JEFFERSON HAD HAD HIS WAY, THE UNITED STATES WOULD HAVE BEEN THE VERY FIRST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD TO HAVE A DECIMAL SYSTEM. THAT'S WHAT HE WANTED TO INTRODUCE AND HE WOULD HAVE GOTTEN AWAY WITH IT IF HE HAD SUCCEEDED IN PERSUADING THE CONGRESS TO LET THEM MEASURE OUT THIS NEW LAND IN DECIMALS.

WE WOULD HAVE HAD, YOU KNOW, DECIMAL MILES WOULD HAVE CROSSED THE WORLD, BUT NO. I DON'T THINK THE UNITED STATES EVER WILL HAVE A METRIC SYSTEM BECAUSE THE LAND IS MEASURED OUT IN FEET AND INCHES AND YARDS AND WHO WANTS THEIR PROPERTY -- YOU'VE GOT A 25,000 SQUARE FOOT APARTMENT. YOU DON'T WANT TO COME OUT AT SOMETHING LIKE, YOU KNOW, THIRTEEN SQUARE METERS. THAT'S NO WAY.

JESS>> AND ACRES WE'RE GOING TO STICK WITH ALSO.

ANDRO LINKLATER>> YOU'RE GOING TO STICK WITH ACRES. YOU'LL KEEP YOUR 640 ACRE SECTION, YEAH.

VAL>> WELL, WE'RE SORT OF IN THE MINORITY IN TERMS OF OUR UNITS OF MEASUREMENT. HOW IS IT THAT, AS YOU POINT OUT, AMERICAN MEASUREMENT LED TOWARD AMERICAN IMPERIALISM OR HOW DID IT --

ANDRO LINKLATER>> -- WELL, I THINK IT LED TOWARDS AMERICAN DEMOCRACY BECAUSE IT WAS VERY EASY TO MEASURE OUT THESE SQUARES IN THE PRAIRIES. IN FACT, THERE'S ONE MANUAL IN THE NINETEENTH CENTURY WHICH TELLS PEOPLE DON'T WAIT FOR THE SURVEY TO COME THROUGH. YOU CAN MEASURE OUT A SQUARE IN THE PRAIRIES. YOU MARCH 220 YARDS SOUTH TOWARDS THE SUN AT MIDDAY. YOU WAIT UNTIL THE SUN SETS IN THE WEST AND 220 YARDS THAT WAY. THAT GIVES YOU YOUR FORTY-ACRE PLOT. EVERY FARMER HAS HIS BACK FORTY. THAT'S THE BOTTOM RUNG ON THE PROPERTY LADDER.

JESS>> AND THAT REALLY IS -- MEASURE IS WHAT REALLY PRODUCED DEMOCRACY AND IT IS STILL TO THIS DAY. WE DON'T OWN PROPERTY WITHOUT IT BEING MEASURED. THAT'S REALLY THE FUNDAMENTAL.

ANDRO LINKLATER>> THAT'S REALLY MY ARGUMENT, THAT IT IS THE WAY THE LAND IS MEASURED OUT DETERMINES HOW THE SOCIETY GROWS UP. YOU ONLY HAVE TO COMPARE IT WITH RUSSIA IN THE NINETEENTH CENTURY. THEY'RE DOING EXACTLY THE SAME THING. THEY'RE EXPANDING ACROSS THE STEPPES, BUT THEY DON'T MEASURE OUT THE LAND. THE CZAR GIVES IT AWAY TO HIS FAVORITES OR WHATEVER AND IT REMAINS A TOTALITARIAN GOVERNMENT. BUT EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE HAPPENS IN THE UNITED STATES. IT'S REALLY THE MOST REMARKABLE PIECE OF, AS IT WERE, INVISIBLE HISTORY, BUT YOU CAN SEE IT. YOU CAN SEE IT IN THE SQUARES AND, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE SQUARES, YOU SHOULDN'T JUST SEE THAT SHAPE. YOU SHOULD SEE THE BEGINNING OF DEMOCRACY.

JESS> BUT WE HAVE TO GIVE IT TO YOU. THE BRITISH SETTLERS, THE EARLY ONES, REALLY BROUGHT THAT NOTION WITH THEM, DIDN'T THEY?

ANDRO LINKLATER>> THEY BROUGHT THE IDEA. I THINK, IN FACT, IT WAS THE ENGLISH SPECIFICALLY. I SAY THAT THE IDEA THAT ONE PERSON CAN OWN THE LAND BEGINS IN ENGLAND. IT BEGINS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SIXTEENTH CENTURY AND, AFTER ALL YOU THINK ABOUT, IT'S A STRANGE IDEA THAT THE LAND WHICH GOES ON FOREVER CAN BE OWNED BY ONE PERSON, THAT THAT'S WHERE THE IDEA OF PROPERTY BEGINS.

JESS>> ANDRO LINKLATER, THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US. THE NAME OF THE BOOK, AGAIN, IS "MEASURING AMERICA: HOW AN UNTAMED WILDERNESS HELPED SHAPE THE UNITED STATES AND FULFILL THE PROMISE OF DEMOCRACY".

VAL>> WELL, WE TRY, BUT WE'VE NEVER CONVERTED TO KILOMETERS, BUT YOU SAID YOU'VE SEEN KILOMETERS.

JESS>> ON INTERSTATE 19 SOUTH OF TUCSON GOING TOWARD THE MEXICAN BORDER. ALL THE SIGNS WERE -- IT USED TO BE KILOMETERS AND MILES, BUT NOW KILOMETERS ONLY.

VAL>> JUST KILOMETERS?

JESS>> WE'LL HAVE TO GET USED TO IT.

VAL>> THAT'S RIGHT. CAN YOU GO FASTER IF YOU GO KILOMETERS PER MILE, DO YOU THINK? (LAUGHTER)

JESS>> YES.

VAL>> THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT.

JESS>> THANKS FOR JOINING US. GOOD NIGHT.

VAL>> TAKE CARE.

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