2/10/03

LC030210

VAL ZAVALA>> TONIGHT ON LIFE AND TIMES --

JESS MARLOW>> THE STRUGGLE OF MAKING ENDS MEET IN A SAGGING ECONOMY, ESPECIALLY WHEN MANY OF THE NEW JOBS ARE PAYING MINIMUM WAGE.

REMA WRIGHT>> I THINK THE AMERICAN DREAM IS JUST BEING ABLE TO SURVIVE NOWADAYS UNLESS YOU’RE RICH, UNLESS YOU HAVE A LOT OF MONEY.

VAL>> AND THEN A MAN WHO BECAME A CIVIL RIGHTS SOLDIER AT A VERY YOUNG AGE, BUT ALL HE REALLY WANTED WAS A CHANCE TO GO TO SCHOOL. TONIGHT A CONVERSATION WITH ONE OF THE LITTLE ROCK NINE.

JESS>> PLUS, GIVING INNER CITY KIDS A BREAK FROM REALITY BY LETTING THEM HIT THE TRAIL.

VAL>> IT’S ALL STRAIGHT AHEAD ON TONIGHT’S LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> THREE JOBS AND NO DAYS OFF. THAT’S HOW ONE SINGLE MOM MAKES ENDS MEET.

JESS>> BUT HER STORY IS ONLY ONE OF MANY ACROSS SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA. TONIGHT WE’LL FIND OUT WHAT SOME LOCAL FAMILIES ARE DOING JUST TO PAY THE BILLS. AS JEFFREY KAYE REPORTS, IT’S NOT A MATTER OF GETTING BETTER JOBS. IT’S TRYING TO HOLD ONTO THE JOBS THEY’VE GOT.

JEFFREY KAYE>> AT THE LOS ANGELES MUSIC CENTER THIS FALL, MANY PATRONS ENJOYED VALET PARKING, FINE DINING EL FRESCO AND, FOR UP TO $45 A TICKET, “NICKEL AND DIME”, A PLAY ABOUT THE WORKING POOR.

[FILM CLIP]

JEFFREY KAYE>> THE PLAY WHICH, SO FAR, HAS ONLY BEEN SEEN IN LOS ANGELES IS BASED ON THE BEST-SELLING 2001 BOOK BY BARBARA EHRENREICH. HER JOURNEY INTO THE WORLD OF LOW-WAGE WORKERS CAST A SPOTLIGHT ON THEIR STRUGGLE TO SURVIVE, AND THE GAP BETWEEN THE NATION’S RICH AND POOR IS WIDENING, ACCORDING TO RECENT GOVERNMENT FIGURES.

RUTH MILKMAN>> HIS RESEARCH IS ON CONTEMPORARY LABOR HISTORY...

JEFFREY KAYE>> RUTH MILKMAN, DIRECTOR OF THE INSTITUTE FOR LABOR AND EMPLOYMENT AT THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, SAYS THE CURRENT ECONOMY AGGRAVATES THE DIFFICULTIES OF THE WORKING POOR.

RUTH MILKMAN>> WE’RE SEEING MAYBE FLAT UNEMPLOYMENT AT THE MOMENT, BUT NOT A LOT OF SIGNS OF VIGOR IN THE NATIONAL ECONOMY RIGHT NOW. SLOW GROWTH IS ALWAYS BAD FOR PEOPLE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE LABOR MARKET BECAUSE IT MEANS THERE’S NOT ANY NEW JOBS BEING, YOU KNOW, GENERATED TO MOVE INTO OR RELATIVELY FEW SUCH NEW JOBS.

JEFFREY KAYE>> IN THE PLAY, A REVOLVING STAGE SHOWS THE MAIN CHARACTER RUSHING EXHAUSTED BETWEEN MULTIPLE LOW-PAYING JOBS.

[FILM CLIP]

REMA WRIGHT>> I NEED THE BACON, OVER-EASY.

JEFFREY KAYE>> BUT REMA WRIGHT SAYS SHE DOESN’T HAVE TO ATTEND A PLAY TO LEARN ABOUT LOW-WAGE WORKERS.

REMA WRIGHT>> IT’S SAD THAT THEY DON’T KNOW, THEY DON’T REALIZE, BUT HOW CAN THEY? YOU KNOW, THEY DON’T LIVE THAT LIFE. HOW ARE THEY GOING TO KNOW?

JEFFREY KAYE>> WHAT SHOULD THEY KNOW?

REMA WRIGHT>> THAT A LOT OF US WORK REALLY, REALLY HARD JUST TO MAKE ENDS MEET, JUST TO MAKE ENDS MEET. IT’S NOT EVEN ABOUT HAVING ALL THE EXTRAS IN LIFE. IT’S JUST ABOUT BEING ABLE TO LIVE AND PAY YOUR BILLS.

JEFFREY KAYE>> WRIGHT IS A 42-YEAR-OLD SINGLE MOTHER OF TWO. WHEN SHE’S NOT WORKING IRREGULAR HOURS AS A WAITRESS, SHE’S AT HER FULL-TIME DAY JOB AS A MEDICAL BILLING CLERK. MOST DAYS, SHE RACES HOME, CHANGES AND DRIVES OFF TO A THIRD JOB AT WAL-MART WHERE SHE WORKS WEEKENDS AND NIGHTS.

REMA WRIGHT>> I HATE TO SAY I’M HARDLY EVER AT HOME, BUT I’M HARDLY EVER AT HOME. I PROBABLY WORK ABOUT SEVENTY HOURS A WEEK BETWEEN THE THREE JOBS.

JEFFREY KAYE>> WRIGHT’S TWO-BEDROOM APARTMENT IS IN COVINA, CALIFORNIA, EAST OF LOS ANGELES. WITH THE THREE JOBS, SHE BRINGS IN CLOSE TO $22,000 A YEAR, JUST ENOUGH TO SUPPORT HERSELF AND HER TWO KIDS, BRUCE, NINETEEN, AND ARIANNA, TWELVE.

JEFFREY KAYE>> COULD YOU KEEP GOING IF YOU DIDN’T HAVE THESE THREE JOBS?

REMA WRIGHT>> KEEP GOING AS FAR AS LIVING?

JEFFREY KAYE>> LIVING, PAYING YOUR EXPENSES.

REMA WRIGHT>> LIVING? NO, NO, NO. I COULDN’T AFFORD ANYTHING, ANYTHING. MY RENT. THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE ABOUT IT. THE RENT AND FOOD.

JEFFREY KAYE>> WRIGHT SAYS, THESE DAYS, SIMPLY MAKING IT IS THE AMERICAN DREAM.

REMA WRIGHT>> I THINK THE AMERICAN DREAM IS JUST BEING ABLE TO SURVIVE NOWADAYS UNLESS YOU’RE RICH, UNLESS YOU HAVE A LOT OF MONEY.

JEFFREY KAYE>> FOR WRIGHT AND OTHER LOW-PAID WORKING AMERICANS, THE STRUGGLE TO SURVIVE CAN BE A CONSTANT CHALLENGE. FOR EXAMPLE, HOW DO YOU FIND HOUSING IF YOU CAN’T AFFORD A DOWN PAYMENT? ONE COMMON SOLUTION? MOVE INTO A MOTEL AS WRIGHT AND HER FAMILY ONCE DID.

REMA WRIGHT>> MOTELS NOWADAYS ARE LIVING QUARTERS, ACTUAL LIVING QUARTERS, BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN’T AFFORD TO PAY THE MONTHLY RENT OR CAN’T AFFORD A DEPOSIT OR WHATEVER. THEY’LL GO AND RENT A MOTEL ROOM AS AN APARTMENT.

JEFFREY KAYE>> THEN THERE ARE THE BILLS THAT DON’T ALWAYS GET PAID ON TIME.

REMA WRIGHT>> THE LIGHTS ENDED UP GETTING SHUT OFF.

JEFFREY KAYE>> SHUT OFF YOUR LIGHTS?

REMA WRIGHT>> YEAH, TWICE, TWICE. IF IT’S NOT ONE THING, IT’S ANOTHER. THEN TODAY I JUST SENT OFF MY CAR PAYMENT WHICH WAS LATE AND I’M GETTING A DEFERMENT FOR THIS MONTH SO THAT I DON’T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THIS MONTH BECAUSE IT’S CHRISTMAS. THAT’LL GIVE ME A LITTLE BIT EXTRA CHRISTMAS MONEY.

JEFFREY KAYE>> SO YOU DO A LOT OF JUGGLING.

REMA WRIGHT>> YEAH, YEAH.

JEFFREY KAYE>> MOST NEW JOBS ARE BEING CREATED AT THE LOW AND HIGH ENDS OF THE SPECTRUM, SO OPPORTUNITIES FOR LOW-WAGE WORKERS, PARTICULARLY IN CALIFORNIA, HAVE DECLINED OVER THE LAST QUARTER OF A CENTURY, ACCORDING TO ECONOMIST MILKMAN.

RUTH MILKMAN>> THE MIDDLE LEVEL JOBS ARE INCREASINGLY AN ENDANGERED SPECIES TODAY.

JEFFREY KAYE>> THE LATEST ECONOMIC NUMBERS SHOW A CONTINUATION OF A LONG-TERM TREND, WHICH SHE CALLS JOB POLARIZATION.

RUTH MILKMAN>> A GENERATION OF LOTS OF VERY DESIRABLE JOBS AND LOTS OF VERY UNDESIRABLE JOBS, LOW-WAGE JOBS WITH FEW BENEFITS AND FEW OPPORTUNITIES FOR ADVANCEMENT, AND VERY LITTLE GROWTH IN THE MIDDLE.

JEFFREY KAYE>> AND THE LESS EDUCATION ONE HAS, THE FEWER OPPORTUNITIES THERE ARE. FOR REMA WRIGHT, ONE WELCOME BREAK FROM HER LONG HOURS OF WORK COMES FROM SUPPORTING HER DAUGHTER ARIANNA’S CHEERLEADING HOBBY. WITH JUST A HIGH SCHOOL DEGREE AND SOME TRAINING AS A BILLING CLERK, WRIGHT SAYS IT’S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND A BETTER-PAYING JOB. BUT ARIANNA ALREADY KNOWS THAT, IF SHE WANTS TO AVOID THE KIND OF LIFE HER MOTHER HAS, SHE NEEDS AN EDUCATION.

JEFFREY KAYE>> WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE KIND OF LIFE SHE LEADS?

ARIANNA WRIGHT>> REALLY DIFFICULT AND EXHAUSTING. IT WOULD BE REALLY HARD FOR ME TO DO THAT, SO I WANT TO FINISH SCHOOL AND THEN GO TO COLLEGE AND EVERYTHING.

JEFFREY KAYE>> YOU’VE WORKED HERE AS A WAITRESS. YOU WORK AT WAL-MART. ARE PEOPLE MOVING ON TO BETTER-PAYING JOBS?

REMA WRIGHT>> SOME.

JEFFREY KAYE>> BUT NOT MOST PEOPLE?

REMA WRIGHT>> MOST PEOPLE ARE EITHER NOT WORKING BY THEIR CHOICE OR THEY’RE GOING ON TO MAYBE THE SAME THING, BUT SOMEWHERE ELSE.

JEFFREY KAYE>> SAME KIND OF PAY?

REMA WRIGHT>> SAME KIND OF PAY, SAME KIND OF JOB, BUT IN A DIFFERENT STORE.

JEFFREY KAYE>> EXPERTS DISAGREE ABOUT THE POTENTIAL FOR UPWARD MOBILITY. LIBERAL ECONOMIST, MILKMAN, HAS A BLEAK VIEW.

RUTH MILKMAN>> BASICALLY, THE OPPORTUNITY STRUCTURE BECOMES LIKE AN HOURGLASS INSTEAD OF A LADDER. THE RUNGS ON THE LADDER THAT USED TO BE THERE IN THE MIDDLE ARE BEING KNOCKED OUT.

JEFFREY KAYE>> THAT’S NOT THE POINT, SAYS ADRIAN MOORE. HE MET US AT J&D’S COUNTRY CAFÉ WHERE WRIGHT WORKS PART-TIME.

ADRIAN MOORE>> THIS LADDER OF PROGRESSION ISN’T REALLY THE WAY PEOPLE MOVE THROUGH JOBS ANYMORE.

JEFFREY KAYE>> MOORE IS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE REASON PUBLIC POLICY INSTITUTE, A THINK TANK WHICH PROMOTES FREE MARKET POLICIES. HE SAYS, INSTEAD OF CLIMBING A LADDER, THERE ARE STILL WAYS FOR LOW-WAGE WORKERS TO GET AHEAD.

ADRIAN MOORE>> WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT HOW PEOPLE MAKE THAT TRANSITION FROM LOW-INCOME TO HIGH-INCOME IS THEY WORK HARD, THEY GET SOME EDUCATION, THEY LEARN SOME SPECIALIZED SKILLS AND THEY USE THEIR RELATIONSHIPS AND THEIR NETWORKS IN ORDER TO FIND THE NEXT AND BETTER JOB. I MEAN, THAT SOUNDS VERY SIMPLE AND I DON’T WANT TO MAKE IT OVERSIMPLIFIED. THAT’S HARD WORK, BUT THAT IS THE RECIPE FOR MOVING UP IN AMERICA.

JEFFREY KAYE>> THERE’S ALSO THE ARGUMENT THAT THE MORE AFFLUENT MUST PAY A PRICE IF LOW-WAGE WORKERS ARE TO EARN MORE. AT THE PLAY, ACTORS BROKE OUT OF THEIR ROLES TO CONFRONT THE AUDIENCE WITH THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES.

[FILM CLIP]

JEFFREY KAYE>> WHILE “NICKEL AND DIMED” POSED THE QUESTION ABOUT HOW MUCH WE AS A SOCIETY ARE WILLING TO PAY TO BOOST THE WAGES OF LOW-INCOME WORKERS, THE GAP BETWEEN THE REMA WRIGHTS OF AMERICA AND THE MORE WELL-TO-DO IS EXPECTED ONLY TO WIDEN.

JESS>> AND THE THREAT OF WAR WITH IRAQ COULD HAVE A VERY LARGE IMPACT ON BOTH THE ECONOMY AND ON JOB OUTLOOKS IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA. LATER THIS WEEK, A PANEL OF ECONOMIC EXPERTS WILL OFFER THEIR FORECAST OF WHAT MAY LIE AHEAD FOR THE REGION’S BUSINESS COMMUNITY AND THE LOCAL WORKFORCE.

VAL>> TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, WHY ARE MORE CHILDREN BEING BORN PREMATURE? THERE’S AN APPARENT SURGE OF PREMATURE BIRTHS AND HEALTH OFFICIALS ARE TRYING TO SOLVE THE MYSTERY. IN THE MEANTIME, HOSPITALS ARE FIGHTING TO KEEP UNDER-WEIGHT BABIES ALIVE. WE’LL HAVE DETAILS TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES.

JESS>> IT WAS A VERY DIFFERENT WORLD IN THE LATE SUMMER OF 1957. THAT'S WHEN OUR NEXT GUEST BECAME A FEATURED PLAYER IN AMERICA'S VERY YOUNG CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT. THE SETTING WAS LITTLE ROCK, ARKANSAS. GOVERNOR ORVAL FAUBUS HAD CALLED OUT THE ARKANSAS NATIONAL GUARD TO PREVENT NINE BLACK STUDENTS FROM ENTERING AN ALL-WHITE HIGH SCHOOL, LITTLE ROCK CENTRAL. TERRENCE ROBERTS WAS ONE OF THOSE NINE STUDENTS WHO FINALLY GOT IN, BUT ONLY AFTER PRESIDENT EISENHOWER SENT IN FEDERAL TROOPS.

VAL>> AND TERRENCE ROBERTS WENT ON TO BECOME A PROFESSOR AND A CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST. HE LIVES IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AND HE JOINS US TONIGHT TO TALK ABOUT THOSE EARLY DAYS IN LITTLE ROCK. WELCOME TO LIFE AND TIMES.

TERRENCE ROBERTS>> THANK YOU.

JESS>> YOU WERE VERY YOUNG. WHAT PROMPTED YOU TO MAKE THAT CHALLENGE?

TERRENCE ROBERTS>> YEAH, I WAS YOUNG, ALTHOUGH IT SEEMS LIKE JUST YESTERDAY. I THINK THE ONE THING THAT MADE IT HAPPEN FOR ME WAS THAT I WAS TOTALLY CONVINCED THAT THAT SYSTEM OF OPPRESSION BASED ON RACIAL GROUP MEMBERSHIP WAS WRONG, NO QUESTION ABOUT IT. AND EVEN AS A FIFTEEN YEAR OLD, I KNEW THAT AND I WANTED TO CHANGE IT.

VAL>> DID THEY HAVE SEPARATE HIGH SCHOOLS BACK THEN OR WAS --

TERRENCE ROBERTS>> -- TOTALLY SEPARATE.

VAL>> TOTALLY SEPARATE. SO YOU WERE GOING TO AN ALL-BLACK HIGH SCHOOL AND YOU AND YOUR GROUP OF STUDENTS CHALLENGED THE COLOR BARRIER AT THE ALL-WHITE SCHOOL, CORRECT?

TERRENCE ROBERTS>> RIGHT, RIGHT. WHAT MADE IT SO POIGNANT WAS THAT, WITH THE PLESSY DECISION IN 1896 WHERE DISCRIMINATION WAS MADE CONSTITUTIONAL, I WAS BORN DURING THE TIME WHEN THAT WAS STILL EFFECTING. SO THE 1954 DECISION CHANGED SLIGHTLY. IT HAD TO DO WITH EDUCATION. IT DIDN'T MENTION ANYTHING ELSE.

VAL>> HOW DID YOU ACTUALLY BECOME ONE OF THE NINE STUDENTS?

TERRENCE ROBERTS>> I VOLUNTEERED, I VOLUNTEERED, BECAUSE THE SCHOOL BOARD --

JESS>> -- YOU CHOSE TO PARTICIPATE?

TERRENCE ROBERTS>> ABSOLUTELY, ABSOLUTELY. THAT'S A GOOD LINE (LAUGHTER). THE SCHOOL BOARD PUT TOGETHER THE PLAN TO DESEGREGATE THE SCHOOL. THEY PRESENTED IT TO THE ALL-BLACK HIGH SCHOOL WHERE I WAS IN THE TENTH GRADE AT THAT TIME, AND IT WAS MUSIC TO MY EARS. I SAID, SURE, I'LL VOLUNTEER AND THERE WERE LOTS OF US WHO VOLUNTEERED.

JESS>> COULD YOU HAVE ANTICIPATED, THOUGH, THAT IT WOULD TAKE, FIRST OF ALL, ORVAL FAUBUS AND THE STATE GUARD TO TRY TO PREVENT YOU FROM ENTERING AND THEN FEDERAL TROOPS TO TRY TO INSIST THAT YOU BE ALLOWED TO ENTER?

TERRENCE ROBERTS>> IT WASN'T ON MY RADAR SCREEN AT ALL. I DID NOT KNOW THAT ANYTHING LIKE THAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.

VAL>> AND THERE'S A PICTURE OF YOU AND YOUR OTHER FELLOW STUDENTS. YOU MUST HAVE GOTTEN QUITE CLOSE THROUGH THIS EXPERIENCE.

TERRENCE ROBERTS>> OH, YEAH, YEAH. IN FACT, WE REMAIN CLOSE NOW. WE HAVE A FOUNDATION, THE LITTLE ROCK NINE FOUNDATION, AND WE TRY TO GIVE SCHOLARSHIPS TO SUPPORT STUDENTS WHO WANT TO GO TO SCHOOL BUT DON'T HAVE THE FUNDS.

VAL>> BUT DID YOU EVER EXPECT IT WOULD BECOME A NATIONAL INCIDENT WITH THE NATIONAL GUARD AND THE ARKANSAS TROOPS?

TERRENCE ROBERTS>> NOT AT FIRST, BUT DURING THE YEAR, IT BECAME APPARENT THAT THIS THING WAS MUCH BIGGER THAN NINE KIDS GOING TO SCHOOL, MUCH, MUCH BIGGER.

JESS>> AND ORVAL FAUBUS'S REACTION TO ALL THIS?

TERRENCE ROBERTS>> HE WAS NOT IN FAVOR. IN FACT, I MET HIM SOME YEARS AFTER THAT EPISODE AND ASKED HIM WHAT HE THOUGHT HE WAS DOING BECAUSE HE PUT MY LIFE AT RISK. HE SAID, ACTUALLY, HE DID WHAT HE DID BECAUSE, HAD HE NOT DONE THAT, HE WOULD HAVE BEEN VOTED OUT OF OFFICE.

JESS>> BUT HE WOUND UP CLOSING THE HIGH SCHOOL.

TERRENCE ROBERTS>> WELL, IN HIS MIND, THAT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. YOU SEE, THAT'S THE SORT OF WEIRD PIECE IN ALL OF THIS. THOSE WHO WERE IN OPPOSITION FELT THAT THEY WERE DOING THE RIGHT THING, JUST AS WE FELT WE WERE DOING THE RIGHT THING. THEY FELT JUSTIFIED IN KEEPING US OUT.

VAL>> SO THE NINE OF YOU CHALLENGED THE LAW AND HE CLOSED DOWN THE HIGH SCHOOLS. WHAT EVENTUALLY HAPPENED?

TERRENCE ROBERTS>> I LEFT TOWN. I LEFT LITTLE ROCK AND CAME TO LOS ANGELES, FINISHED HIGH SCHOOL HERE AND PRETTY MUCH BECAME A CALIFORNIAN.

VAL>> BECAUSE YOU COULD NOT HAVE FINISHED SCHOOL THERE BECAUSE THE HIGH SCHOOLS WERE CLOSED? IS THAT RIGHT?

TERRENCE ROBERTS>> RIGHT. NO PLACE TO GO.

VAL>> NO ONE COULD FINISH HIGH SCHOOL THERE?

TERRENCE ROBERTS>> NOBODY.

VAL>> UNLESS YOU HAD THE MEANS TO GO TO A PRIVATE SCHOOL.

TERRENCE ROBERTS>> RIGHT, IF YOU COULD AFFORD PRIVATE SCHOOL.

JESS>> THINGS HAVE CHANGED GREATLY, BUT HAVE THEY CHANGED SUFFICIENTLY?

TERRENCE ROBERTS>> THEY HAVE CHANGED GREATLY ON THE SURFACE, I SAY. THINGS HAVE CHANGED ULTIMATELY ON THE SURFACE, BUT UNDERNEATH WE STILL HAVE PROBLEMS BUBBLING UNDER THE SURFACE.

JESS>> YOU WRITE ABOUT MYTHOLOGY AND THE FACT THAT WE HAVE SOME ENDURING MYTHS ABOUT RACE?

TERRENCE ROBERTS>> ABSOLUTELY, ABSOLUTELY. THE MYTHOLOGICAL CONSTRUCT OF RACE IS ONE. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS RACE AND YET I AM CONVINCED THAT, IN SOME SCHOOLS, SCHOOL KIDS ARE STILL TAUGHT THAT THERE IS SUCH A THING. THAT TELLS US, AT LEAST IT TELLS ME, THAT WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO.

VAL>> NOW YOU'LL HAVE TO ELABORATE ON IT BECAUSE I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE LISTENING WOULD SAY, WHAT DO YOU MEAN THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS RACE?

TERRENCE ROBERTS>> WELL, THERE NEVER HAS BEEN ANY SCIENTIFIC OR BIOLOGICAL PROOF OF THAT CONCEPT. IT'S MERELY AN HISTORICAL SOCIOPOLITICAL CONSTRUCT, BUT PEOPLE BUY INTO IT. FOR WHATEVER REASON, THEY LIKE TO MAINTAIN THOSE LINES OF SEPARATION. I THINK IT'S BECAUSE WE'RE BASICALLY CONFUSED ABOUT DIFFERENCE.

JESS>> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT CULTURE VERSUS RACE.

TERRENCE ROBERTS>> WELL, THAT'S TRUE. WE'RE CONFUSED ABOUT ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENCES. IN FACT, RATHER THAN TALK ABOUT RACE, OFTEN WHAT I WILL DO IS, JUST TO EXPAND THE DISCUSSION, TALK ABOUT DIFFERENCE PER SE AND GET PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND THAT DIFFERENCE IS, PERIOD. YOU DON'T HAVE TO ANALYZE IT, DISSECT IT, GET ANGRY ABOUT IT, JUST ACCEPT IT FOR WHAT IT IS. I SAY THAT ESPECIALLY TO PEOPLE WHO LIKE TO THINK THAT COLOR-BLINDNESS IS PREFERABLE TO BEING SIGHTED. I SAY WHY WOULD YOU VOLUNTARILY DISABLE YOURSELF? WHY NOT SEE ME AS I AM, BUT NOT TREAT ME AS IF I WERE LESS THAN BECAUSE OF WHO I AM?

JESS>> BUT THOSE WHO USE THE TERM COLOR-BLINDNESS ARE TALKING ABOUT EQUALITY OF OPPORTUNITY.

TERRENCE ROBERTS>> WELL, MAYBE THEY FEEL THAT, BUT THE MESSAGE GETS GARBLED WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT COLOR-BLINDNESS BECAUSE BASICALLY WHAT IT SAYS TO ME IS THEY REFUSE TO SEE ME AS I AM. THEY HAVE TO CLOAK ME WITH SOMETHING ELSE, SOME OTHER SKIN COLOR, TO MAKE ME ACCEPTABLE. SO RATHER THAN BLIND THEMSELVES TO WHO I REALLY AM, WHY NOT SEE ME COMPLETELY AS I AM AND LEARN TO ACCEPT ME?

VAL>> NOW WHATEVER HAPPENED AT CENTRAL HIGH IN LITTLE ROCK? IT BECAME INTEGRATED -- IT WAS CLOSED AND THEN OPENED AND IT DID BECOME INTEGRATED, I ASSUME?

TERRENCE ROBERTS>> ACTUALLY, I WAS HIRED BY THE LITTLE ROCK SCHOOL BOARD IN 1998 AS ONE OF THEIR OFFICIAL DESEGREGATION CONSULTANTS.

VAL>> REALLY?

JESS>> WHAT A TURNAROUND THAT WAS.

TERRENCE ROBERTS>> YES, TO HELP THEM DESEGREGATE THE SCHOOLS. NOW THE AGENDA WAS THE SAME IN 1998 AS IT WAS IN 1957 BECAUSE, UNTIL FALL OF 2002, THE LITTLE ROCK SCHOOL DISTRICT HAD BEEN UNDER CONTINUOUS COURT ORDER TO DESEGREGATE THE SCHOOLS SINCE 1956.

VAL>> BECAUSE THERE WERE TOO MANY MINORITY CHILDREN CONCENTRATED IN HIGH SCHOOL? IN OTHER WORDS, DID EVERYTHING TURN --

TERRENCE ROBERTS>> -- NO, NO. IT WAS AN ISSUE OF THE SCHOOL NOT REALLY UNDERSTANDING WHAT DESEGREGATION REALLY MEANT AND THE COMMUNITY REFUSING TO PARTICIPATE IN DESEGREGATION. BASICALLY, WHITE PARENTS PULLED THEIR KIDS AND MOVED TO THE SUBURBS, TO GET RIGHT TO THE NUB OF IT, SO WHAT THAT LEFT WAS AN INNER CITY WHERE NOW CENTRAL HIGH SCHOOL IS MAINLY BLACK AND LATINO.

VAL>> THAT'S WHAT I WANTED TO KNOW. SO IT BECAME INTEGRATED, BUT NOW THE PENDULUM HAS SWUNG IN A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT DIRECTION.

TERRENCE ROBERTS>> AND LITTLE ROCK IS A MICROCOSM FOR WHAT I SEE ALL OVER THE COUNTRY. WHEN IT BECOMES VERY APPARENT THAT THE SCHOOLS ARE GOING TO ADMIT STUDENTS OF COLOR, WHITE FAMILIES SIMPLY MOVE. THEY VACATE THE PREMISES. SO ONE OF MY SOLUTIONS TO THAT IS TO ASK PEOPLE TO STAY PUT.

JESS>> I SAID YOU CHOSE TO PARTICIPATE AND THAT LEADS US INTO THE EXHIBIT "CHOOSE TO PARTICIPATE". TELL US ABOUT IT.

TERRENCE ROBERTS>> YES. FACING HISTORY AND OURSELVES IS PUTTING ON AN EXHIBIT, WHICH IS NOW SHOWING AT THE LOS ANGELES PUBLIC LIBRARY, "CHOOSING TO PARTICIPATE", AND IT IS DESIGNED TO ALLOW VISITORS TO COME AND SEE WHAT THEY CAN DO AS A MEMBER OF THEIR OWN COMMUNITY TO MAKE SOME CHANGE IN POSITIVE DIRECTIONS IN THIS SOCIETY.

VAL>> AND IT FEATURES THE STORY ABOUT THE ARKANSAS NINE --

TERRENCE ROBERTS>> -- RIGHT, THE LITTLE ROCK NINE IS ONE OF THE STORIES FEATURED.

VAL>> AND IT ALSO FOCUSES ON YOU AS A PERSON WHO HAS MADE A DIFFERENCE AS AN INDIVIDUAL HERE IN LOS ANGELES. TERRENCE ROBERTS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING HERE. FASCINATING STORY. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

TERRENCE ROBERTS>> THANK YOU.

JESS>> TERRENCE ROBERTS' STORY IS TOLD IN A MULTI-MEDIA EXHIBIT, AS HE SAID, AT CENTRAL LIBRARY IN DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES THROUGH MAY 4. IT'S CALLED "CHOOSING TO PARTICIPATE: FACING HISTORY AND OURSELVES".

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LIFE AND TIMES
4401 SUNSET BLVD.
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90027

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JESS>> MICHAEL MCMEEL SPENT HIS YOUNGER DAYS ON THE ROAD AS A ROCK AND ROLL DRUMMER, BUT NOW HE SPENDS HIS TIME ON A RANCH NORTH OF LOS ANGELES TRYING TO PUT YOUNGSTERS ON THE ROAD TO A BETTER LIFE.

VAL>> MCMEEL GOT THE IDEA THAT A DAY IN THE SADDLE WOULD DO A LOT OF GOOD FOR INNER CITY KIDS WHO MAY NEVER HAVE EVEN SEEN A HORSE. AS GAY YEE TELLS US, THAT'S WHY HE STARTED THE PROGRAM CALLED "INNER CITY SLICKERS".

GAY YEE>> ANDRE LIVES IN MID-CITY LOS ANGELES. AT SEVENTEEN, HE IS THE OLDEST CHILD, THE MAN OF THE FAMILY. GANG TERRITORY LIES JUST OUTSIDE HIS DOOR. IT IS AN OBSTACLE HE MUST NEGOTIATE EVERY TIME HE AND HIS FAMILY LEAVE HOME. BUT ON THIS SATURDAY MORNING, ANDRE, HIS SISTER ELIZABETH, AND THEIR FRIEND, JULIO, WILL LEAVE THE CITY BEHIND. THEY ARE JOINING FRIENDS AT THEIR LOCAL YOUTH GROUP TO SPEND THE DAY AT INNER CITY SLICKERS RANCH.

THE RANCH IS NESTLED IN THE HILLS EAST OF NEWHALL. IT TAKES KIDS AWAY FROM THE PRESSURES OF URBAN LIFE AND OPENS THEM UP TO SOMETHING NEW. MICHAEL MCMEEL IS THE DIRECTOR OF THE PROGRAM. HE IS ALSO THE OWNER OF INNER CITY SLICKERS RANCH.

MICHAEL MCMEEL>> "YOU'RE GOING TO LEARN WHAT IT'S LIKE TO CLEAN UP HORSE POO-POO."

>> "YUCK."

MICHAEL MCMEEL>> "(LAUGHTER) SHE LOOKS LIKE AN EXPERT HORSE POO-POO PICKER UPPER."

>> "THE POOP, BUT NOT THE DIRT."

>> "YOU DO THAT SO WELL."

GAY YEE>> BUT THE REAL TRAINING BEGINS AT THE OTHER END OF THE HORSE.

>> "LOOK FORWARD, LOOK FORWARD. GOOD. NOW EVERYBODY HELP HIM OUT. WHAT ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO DO? GOOD JOB."

MICHAEL MCMEEL>> WHAT HAPPENS IS, THEIR ATTENTION COMES OFF THEMSELVES AND ONTO THIS ENORMOUS ANIMAL. IT'S KIND OF FROM ANOTHER WORLD, SO TO SPEAK, BIG AND SCARY. NOW KIDS LOVE TO BE SCARED, BUT THEY LOVE TO BE SCARED IN AN ENVIRONMENT THAT THEY REALLY CAN'T GET HURT IN.

GAY YEE>> AFTER A FEW HOURS OF GETTING ACQUAINTED, IT'S TIME FOR ELIZABETH TO TAKE CONTROL.

MICHAEL MCMEEL>> "LOWER YOUR HAND, LOWER YOUR HAND. THERE YOU GO. KEEP YOUR HAND LOW. THERE YOU GO. STRAIGHTEN UP. STRAIGHTEN UP YOUR BACK. ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT FALLING OFF? COME HERE AND LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING ABOUT FALLING OFF. IF YOU FALL OFF, THE GROUND'S GOING TO CATCH YOU."

GAY YEE>> ANDRE IS FINDING OUT THAT RIDING IS SERIOUS BUSINESS. THIS IS NO RODEO.

MICHAEL MCMEEL>> NOW THESE KIDS, WHEN THEY COME UP HERE, THEY KEEP SECOND BY SECOND AND MINUTE BY MINUTE PUSHING THROUGH THIS FEAR AND, AT THE OTHER END, YOU'VE GOT A COURAGEOUS HUMAN BEING.

[FILM CLIP]

GAY YEE>> FOR MICHAEL, WORKING WITH KIDS FEEDS A VERY PERSONAL NEED.

MICHAEL MCMEEL>> I STARTED OUT IN THE ROCK AND ROLL BUSINESS. BASICALLY, I WAS JUST IN MY CAREER, SO MY DAUGHTER KIND OF WENT HER OWN WAY, SO I DIDN'T HAVE A LOT OF CONTACT WITH HER. THIS IS THIRTY YEARS AGO, RIGHT? I GUESS, ON SOME LEVEL, I FELT THAT I JUST NEEDED TO GET CLOSE TO KIDS AGAIN.

GAY YEE>> NOW THAT THE KIDS HAVE DEVELOPED A HEALTHY RESPECT FOR THE ANIMALS, IT'S TIME FOR A LITTLE HEALTHY COMPETITION.

[FILM CLIP]

GAY YEE>> AS THE SUN BEGINS TO SET, THERE IS ONE LAST ADVENTURE. EVERYONE LEAVES THE SAFETY OF THE CORRAL TO RIDE THE OPEN TRAIL.

MICHAEL MCMEEL>> NOW IF YOU WOULD HAVE TOLD ME I WAS GOING TO BE DOING THIS A YEAR AND A HALF AGO, I WOULD HAVE SAID GET OUT OF HERE, THERE'S NO WAY.

ANDRE>> ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, IT'S HELPED ME A LOT MORE BECAUSE IT'S LIKE YOU'RE CONQUERING MORE FEARS LIKE THIS. I MEAN, NOW WE'VE TRIED NEW EXPERIENCES, SO IT'LL BE EASIER FOR US TO DO LIKE OTHER THINGS EVEN THOUGH WE'RE SCARED OF THEM.

MICHAEL MCMEEL>> MY HEART JUST KEEPS OPENING MORE AND MORE AND MORE. YOU KNOW, MY GREATEST LOVE OUT OF THIS IS THAT I'M NO LONGER ALONE.

ELIZABETH>> I HAVE RODE HORSES BEFORE AND I HAD A LITTLE EXPERIENCE, BUT THIS TIME, I DON'T KNOW, WAS DIFFERENT. THEY HAVE FUN.

MICHAEL MCMEEL>> ONE OF MY WRANGLERS UP HERE TOLD ME A THOUGHT THAT HE HAD. HE SAID, "GOD PUT HORSES ON THIS EARTH TO MAKE US BETTER HUMAN BEINGS."

JESS>> FOR MORE INFORMATION, YOU CAN CHECK OUT THIS WEBSITE: INNERCITYSLICKERS.ORG, OR CALL THE NUMBER ON YOUR SCREEN.

[661-268-1088]

VAL>> AND IF YOU MISSED THAT NUMBER, JUST DROP US AN E-MAIL TO OUR WEBSITE AT KCET.ORG. WE'LL BE HAPPY TO PASS IT ALONG.

JESS>> AND THAT'S OUR PROGRAM. NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, THANKS AND GOOD NIGHT.

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