7/24/02

LC020724

VAL ZAVALA>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS MARLOW>> AS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH CRACKS DOWN ON SEXUAL PREDATORS, SOME GAY PRIESTS FEAR THE CHURCH MAY COME AFTER THEM.

JIM MAIER>> I FEEL A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF ANGER AND SURPRISE WHEN THERE'S DISCUSSION ABOUT TRYING TO ELIMINATE HOMOSEXUALS FROM THE PRIESTHOOD. AMONG OURSELVES, WE JOKE TO SAY, WELL, THAT WOULD MEAN HALF OF THE CLERGY WOULD HAVE TO LEAVE.

VAL>> BILL SIMON FINALLY HAS RELEASED HIS TAX RETURNS, BUT REPORTERS MAY NEED AN MBA TO FIGURE OUT WHAT ALL THOSE FINANCIAL RECORDS MEAN. TONIGHT A LOOK AT WHAT SIMON SAYS, PLUS WE'LL ASK TWO POLITICAL EXPERTS IF THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE IS BLOWING HIS CHANCES OF BEATING GRAY DAVIS THIS NOVEMBER.

JESS>> WE'LL ALSO PONDER THIS QUESTION: DO ART CLASSES INSPIRE CHILDREN TO PERFORM BETTER IN SCHOOL?

>> AND THESE ARE SOME OF THE EXAMPLES OF MASKS AROUND THE WORLD.

JESS>> TONIGHT THE IMPORTANCE OF ART EXPRESSION AS SEEN THROUGH THE EYES OF A CHILD, AND WE'LL FIND OUT HOW ONE PROGRAM IS MAKING A BIG DIFFERENCE IN THE INNER CITY.

VAL>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I'M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I'M JESS MARLOW.

ONE OF THE COMMANDMENTS SAYS THOU SHALT NOT LIE, BUT TONIGHT YOU'RE ABOUT TO MEET TWO PRIESTS WHO SPENT MANY YEARS AFRAID TO TELL THE TRUTH. BOTH ARE GAY AND, AS YOU'LL HEAR THEM EXPLAIN, IT'S TOUGH FOR A PRIEST TO ADMIT THAT, ESPECIALLY NOW IN THE WAKE OF THE RECENT SEX SCANDALS.

VAL>> GAYS IN THE CLERGY SAY IT'S WRONG TO TRY TO LINK THEM WITH SEXUAL PREDATORS WHO VICTIMIZE SCORES OF PEOPLE, MAINLY YOUNG BOYS. BUT AS THE CHURCH CONFRONTS THE SCANDAL, SOME OF ITS TOP LEADERS ARE OPENLY ASKING IF THE PRIESTHOOD IS ON THE VERGE OF BEING DOMINATED BY HOMOSEXUAL MEN. TONIGHT PHILIP BRUCE HAS THE STORY OF TWO PRIESTS WHO HAVE PAID THE PRICE OF GOING PUBLIC.

PHILIP BRUCE>> JIM MAIER HAS BEEN A DEVOUT CATHOLIC HIS WHOLE LIFE. HE BEGAN STUDYING FOR THE PRIESTHOOD IN THE 1950'S. AT THE TIME, HE THOUGHT HE WAS HETEROSEXUAL.

JIM MAIER>> WHEN I ENTERED, MY ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT MYSELF WERE THAT MY OPTION WAS EITHER TO STAY IN THE WORLD, SO TO SPEAK, AND MARRY AND HAVE KIDS AND BE A TEACHER OR TO ENTER A RELIGIOUS GROUP THAT EMPHASIZED TEACHING WHERE I WOULD BE A MEMBER OF THE COMMUNITY.

PHILIP BRUCE>> ONLY LATER DID MAIER REALIZE THAT HE WAS GAY. HE SAYS THAT LED TO A GROWING SENSE OF INNER CONFLICT AND TURMOIL. BUT TODAY HE SEES A MUCH MORE PUBLIC PAIN FOR MANY GAY PRIESTS.

JIM MAIER>> THERE'S BEEN AN EASY CONNECTION MADE BY A LOT OF PEOPLE BETWEEN BEING GAY AND INVOLVED IN THE SEX ABUSE OF THE CHILDREN AND I THINK THAT'S A BIG AREA OF MISCONCEPTION. YOU KNOW, UNDOUBTEDLY, SOME OF THE PRIESTS THAT HAVE BEEN INVOLVED WITH SEXUAL ABUSE OF KIDS ARE GAY, BUT MANY ARE NOT.

PHILIP BRUCE>> THE CHILD SEX ABUSE SCANDAL THAT'S ENVELOPED THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IN RECENT MONTHS HAS LED SOME CHURCH LEADERS TO SUGGEST THAT GAYS HAVE NO PLACE IN THE PRIESTHOOD.

JIM MAIER>> I FEEL A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF ANGER AND SURPRISE WHEN THERE'S DISCUSSION ABOUT TRYING TO ELIMINATE HOMOSEXUALS FROM THE PRIESTHOOD. MY BELIEF IS THAT THERE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN GAY MEN IN THE PRIESTHOOD. THERE ARE CERTAINLY MANY WHO ARE NOW IN THE PRIESTHOOD, A FEW OF THEM OPENLY SO, AND MOST OF THEM NOT ABLE TO BE OPEN ABOUT IT EVEN IF THEY WANTED TO BE. AMONG OURSELVES, WE JOKE TO SAY, WELL, THAT WOULD MEAN HALF OF THE CLERGY WOULD HAVE TO LEAVE, AT LEAST IN A COUNTRY LIKE THE UNITED STATES.

PHILIP BRUCE>> MAIER SAYS HE FINDS IT PUZZLING THAT SOME CHURCH AUTHORITIES NOW SUGGEST THAT GAYS SHOULD NOT BE ADMITTED TO THE CATHOLIC CLERGY.

JIM MAIER>> IT SEEMS MORE THE ISSUE IS WILL THEY BE WILLING TO COMMIT THEMSELVES TO A LIFE OF CELIBACY AND CHASTITY AND THEN LIVE WITH THE NORMAL STRUGGLES THAT ANYBODY WOULD HAVE IN LIVING A COMMITMENT LIKE THAT?

PHILIP BRUCE>> MAIER HIMSELF LEFT HIS RELIGIOUS ORDER IN 1995, BUT HE CONTINUES TO PRESIDE AT MASS FOR DIGNITY L.A., A GROUP RUN BY LAY GAY AND LESBIAN CATHOLICS. THEY WANT TO CHANGE THE CHURCH'S TEACHING ON SEXUALITY AND PARTICULARLY HOMOSEXUALITY.

JIM MAIER>> THE VIEW OF THE OFFICIAL CHURCH ON HOMOSEXUALITY WOULD BE THAT THE WORDS "INTRINSICALLY DISORDERED" ARE USED. SO A PERSON WHO FINDS HIMSELF OR HERSELF HOMOSEXUAL IN THEIR ORIENTATION WOULD BE CONSIDERED SOMEHOW, WELL, TO BE DISORDERED. NOW IT'S NO LONGER CONSIDERED TO BE AN OCCASION OF SIN OR TO BE SINFUL TO BE A GAY PERSON, SO WE'VE MOVED AT LEAST THAT FAR ALONG, BUT THERE'S STILL THE SENSE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG HERE.

PHILIP BRUCE>> IN HIS OWN CASE, MAIER WENT TO HIS SPIRITUAL DIRECTOR WHEN HE REALIZED HE WAS GAY AND HE WAS TREATED WITH UNDERSTANDING. ALL ALONG, HE HAD HONORED HIS VOW OF CHASTITY AND HE WASN'T SEXUALLY ACTIVE, SO MAIER SAW NO REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TO LEAVE THE PRIESTHOOD. BUT THAT WASN'T THE CASE FOR ANOTHER MEMBER OF DIGNITY L.A. KEVIN STEEN WAS DRIVEN FROM HIS ORDER BY HIS SUPERIOR.

KEVIN STEEN>> WELL, I HAD TOLD SOME FRIENDS THAT I WAS GAY AND WORD GOT BACK TO THE ABBOT ABOUT IT AND THEN HE CONFRONTED ME AND I ADMITTED IT. THE ABBOT INSISTED I GO TO A RETREAT HOUSE TO GET A CURE. THAT WAS HIS FIRST REACTION. I TRIED TO EXPLAIN TO HIM THAT THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN, BUT HE WAS AN OLD-FASHIONED SUPERIOR WHO THOUGHT THAT THAT WOULD TAKE CARE OF THE PROBLEM.

PHILIP BRUCE>> LIKE MAIER, STEEN SAYS HE HADN'T REALIZED THAT HE WAS GAY WHEN HE ENTERED THE PRIESTHOOD. STEEN WAS ALSO CELIBATE, BUT THE FACT THAT HE HAD BEEN IDENTIFIED AS GAY SEEMED TO THREATEN HIS COMMUNITY, SO HE DECIDED IT WAS TIME TO START A NEW LIFE.

KEVIN STEEN>> I THINK TWO CONFUSED GAYNESS WITH PEDOPHILIA. THEY DIDN'T SAY THAT, BUT THAT WAS SORT OF THE IMPRESSION THAT I GOT FROM VARIOUS THINGS THAT I WAS TOLD.

PHILIP BRUCE>> FOR MAIER, THE DECISION TO RESIGN FROM HIS ORDER WAS COMPLICATED AND TOOK A LONG TIME. COMPLICATING IT EVEN MORE, HE HAD FALLEN IN LOVE.

JIM MAIER>> AFTER A WHILE, EVERY TIME I WOULD PERFORM A WEDDING, TO GO THROUGH MARRIAGE STRESS WITH THESE YOUNG COUPLES AND SO ON, I BEGAN TO THINK, WELL, I'LL NEVER EXPERIENCE THIS KIND OF A RELATIONSHIP WITH ONE OTHER PERSON AND I KNEW WHEN I MADE MY VOWS AND MY COMMITMENTS THAT THAT WAS THE CASE, BUT IT CAME BACK TO ME IN KIND OF DIFFERENT REALIZATIONS.

PHILIP BRUCE>> MAIER SAYS HE HAD FOUND HIMSELF IN CONFLICT WHILE WORKING WITH GAY AND LESBIAN CATHOLICS WHO WERE THEMSELVES IN CONFLICT OVER THE CHURCH'S POSITION ON HOMOSEXUALITY.

JIM MAIER>> THEY THEMSELVES WERE NOT COMMITTED TO A LIFE OF CELIBACY OR CHASTITY AND WANTING TO SAY IT'S OKAY, IT'S OKAY. I COULD SAY THAT AS MY OPINION, BUT IF THEY SAY, WELL, WHAT IS THE CHURCH'S POSITION AND SO ON, IN TRYING TO DEFEND THAT, I FOUND MORE AND MORE I COULDN'T DEFEND IT.

PHILIP BRUCE>> MAIER HOPES FOR THE DAY WHEN PRIESTS WILL BE ABLE TO MARRY AND HE DREAMS OF A TIME WHEN THE CHURCH'S VIEW ON HOMOSEXUALITY WILL CHANGE.

JIM MAIER>> SOME OF US FEEL THAT THE OFFICIAL CHURCH TEACHING STILL IS VERY UNWILLING TO ACCEPT THE INSIGHTS OF MODERN PSYCHOLOGY AND SOCIOLOGY TO HELP US UNDERSTAND, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT BEING GAY IS NOT A CHOSEN THING. I MEAN, WE'D WAKE UP TO FIND OURSELVES AT SOME TIME IN OUR LIFE OR OTHER REALIZING I'M A GAY PERSON.

JESS>> NO ONE KNOWS FOR CERTAIN HOW MANY OF AMERICA'S 46,000 PRIESTS ARE GAY. SOME CATHOLIC LEADERS ESTIMATE THE NUMBER RANGING ANYWHERE FROM TWENTY TO FIFTY PERCENT OF THE CLERGY.

VAL>> TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA IS ABOUT TO GET A BRAND NEW RAIL LINE AND IT COULD MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE IN YOUR DAILY COMMUTE AND THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOODS.

>> THE GOLD LINE GOES THROUGH CHINATOWN AND IT GOES THROUGH LINCOLN HEIGHTS AND IT GOES THROUGH HIGHLAND PARK AND THEN SOUTH PASADENA AND PASADENA, AND I THINK IT WILL BE A WAY TO ATTRACT A LOT OF MONEY INTO THESE NEIGHBORHOODS TO IMPROVE THESE NEIGHBORHOODS AND MAKE THEM MORE WALKABLE AND MORE ATTRACTIVE.

JESS>> FOR MONTHS NOW, BILL SIMON'S BEEN ADAMANT ABOUT NOT DISCLOSING HIS TAX RETURNS, BUT THEN ON MONDAY, SIMON FINALLY GAVE IN TO POLITICAL PRESSURE AND OPENED HIS TAX HISTORY TO REPORTERS.

VAL>> BUT THERE WERE A FEW RESTRICTIONS. THE REPORTERS WERE GIVEN A LIMITED AMOUNT OF TIME TO LOOK AT THEM, ONLY SIX HOURS. THEY WERE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE ACCOUNTANTS LOOK AT THE RETURNS AND THEY EVEN HAD TO USE THE BLANK PAPER PROVIDED BY THE SIMON CAMPAIGN TO TAKE NOTES. SIMON SAYS HE'S READY TO MOVE ON TO ISSUES MORE IMPORTANT TO THE VOTERS THAN HIS TAX RETURNS, BUT EVEN SOME REPUBLICANS WONDER IF HE'S BLOWING HIS CHANCES OF BEATING GRAY DAVIS THIS FALL.

JOINING US NOW ARE VETERAN POLITICAL CONSULTANT, ALLAN HOFFENBLUM, AND JILL STEWART, POLITICAL WRITER FOR NEW TIMES LOS ANGELES. WELCOME, BOTH OF YOU, AGAIN TO LIFE AND TIMES.

JILL STEWART>> THANK YOU.

ALLAN HOFFENBLUM>> GLAD TO BE HERE.

JESS>> ALLAN, IS IT YOUR JUDGMENT THAT HE REALLY HAD NO CHOICE? HE HAD TO RELEASE THEM?

ALLAN HOFFENBLUM>> HE HAD TO RELEASE THE RETURNS. HE HAD NO CHOICE. I GUESS EVEN HE AND HIS CAMPAIGN STAFF REALIZED THAT. BUT LISTEN, WHEN THE POLITICAL REPORTERS IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA ARE ASKING FOR RAW MEAT, DON'T FEED THEM BOLOGNA, AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HE DID ON MONDAY. ONE OF THE REASONS WE'RE STILL HERE TODAY DISCUSSING THE SITUATION IS BECAUSE HE HAS NOT DONE ENOUGH. EVEN THOSE WHO WERE TAKING NOTES AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT EXACTLY WHAT HE DID AS FAR AS PAYING HIS TAXES ARE GOING TO HAVE OTHER QUESTIONS, SO WHAT IS BILL SIMON GOING TO DO NOW WHEN HE RESPONDS TO QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT THEY SAW WHEN THEY LOOKED AT HIS TAX RETURNS?

JESS>> WELL, AT THAT NEWS CONFERENCE, HE WOULD NOT RESPOND TO QUESTIONS, I UNDERSTAND.

ALLAN HOFFENBLUM>> WELL, THEN, HE'S RIGHT BACK TO WHERE HE WAS ON DAY ONE, EXCEPT ONE THING. YOU KNOW, THE DAVIS CAMPAIGN, IN MY OPINION, WAS TRYING TO INSINUATE THAT MAYBE HE DIDN'T PAY ANY STATE TAXES, DIDN'T PAY HIS FAIR SHARE. WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT, HE PAID OVER $11 MILLION DOLLARS IN FEDERAL AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN STATE, SO HE'S PAID A LOT OF MONEY IN TAXES. BUT LET'S GO BACK. I THOUGHT THEY HANDLED IT VERY POORLY IN FOLLOWING THROUGH AS TO WHAT THE PRESS REALLY WANTS AND I THINK HE'S RIGHT BACK TO SQUARE ONE.

VAL>> JILL, DID HE PAY HIS FAIR SHARE?

JILL STEWART>> HE DID PAY HIS FAIR SHARE AND THAT'S WHY I'M SO MYSTIFIED AS TO WHY THEY DECIDED TO SHOOT THEMSELVES IN THE FOOT WHILE PUTTING OUT THIS INFORMATION, PAYING --

VAL>> -- HOW MUCH DID HE PAY, FIRST?

JILL STEWART>> PAYING TWENTY-FOUR PERCENT, FOR EXAMPLE, IN FEDERAL TAX. THAT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE A GUY WHO'S FOUND A LOT OF PLACES TO SHELTER HIS MONEY AND DONE A LOT OF SNEAKY THINGS. SO SINCE YOU'RE GOING TO RELEASE THIS AND SHOW YOU PAID A HEFTY AMOUNT, WHY ANGER THE JOURNALISTS? WHY HAVE PEOPLE WATCHING OVER THEIR SHOULDERS? WHY MAKE IT SORT OF A LAUGHING STOCK? I TALKED TO SOME PEOPLE IN THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION THIS MORNING AND THEY WERE GROANING AND MOANING, MY GOD, WHY DID HE MAKE THEM WRITE ON LITTLE PIECES OF PAPER? WHY DID HE TURN IT INTO THIS STORY ABOUT HOW SILLY THEY WERE ACTING? AGAIN, IT'S THE PROBLEM OF HIS CAMPAIGN STAFF, I THINK.

VAL>> BUT HE SAID THAT, BY DISCLOSING HIS TAX RETURNS, TEN YEARS' WORTH, HE ALSO DISCLOSED A LOT OF PRIVATE INFORMATION ABOUT HIS FAMILY, HIS SIBLINGS, BECAUSE IT'S HIS FAMILY TRUST THING AND SO FORTH. THAT'S A LEGITIMATE POINT, NO?

JILL STEWART> YES. CLEARLY, HE WAS HOLDING BACK, I THINK, IN PART, BECAUSE HE IS NOW RELEASING THINGS THAT HIS FAMILY DOESN'T WANT RELEASED. HIS BROTHERS AND SISTERS DON'T WANT THEIR PRIVATE INFORMATION OUT THERE AND THAT WAS HOLDING HIM BACK. HE'S DONE THAT NOW. HE'S KIND OF TAKEN A BIG STEP, I THINK, AS A CANDIDATE, BUT IT'S ALMOST LIKE HE DIDN'T GO ONE FOOT FORWARD AT ALL BECAUSE HE DID IT IN SUCH A STRANGE WAY.

JESS>> AND ALSO, THE YEAR 1995 WAS MISSING FROM THOSE RETURNS. WAS THAT EVER EXPLAINED?

ALLAN HOFFENBLUM>> NO, AND LET'S HOPE IT'S NOT THE FIVE-MINUTE ERASURE FROM A TAPE. NO, I THINK THAT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE EXPLAINED AS TO WHY THE 1995 -- AND, OF COURSE, THEY HAVEN'T HAD 2001 BECAUSE THEY HAVE AN EXTENSION, THOUGH HE DID PAY AS EVERYBODY ELSE THAT'S DUE IN APRIL WHAT THEY BELIEVE HIS TAXES ARE GOING TO BE. BUT I AGREE. HEY, LISTEN, WHEN HE MADE THE DECISION TO RUN FOR GOVERNOR, YOU BRING IN YOUR BROTHERS, YOUR SISTER, YOUR RELATIVES AND SUCH AND SAY, LISTEN, I'M GOING TO RUN FOR GOVERNOR. ARE YOU GOING TO BE BEHIND ME BECAUSE I HAVE TO BE TRANSPARENT? I HAVE TO TELL THE CALIFORNIA ELECTORATE --

VAL>> -- AND IT MAY AFFECT YOU.

ALLAN HOFFENBLUM>> IT MAY AFFECT YOU, AND THEY SHOULD KNOW THAT GOING IN. SO I THINK THIS IS PART OF A PROBLEM OF A FIRST-TIME CANDIDATE WHO'S A LITTLE NAÏVE AS TO WHAT NECESSARILY HAS TO BE DONE TO BE AN EFFECTIVE CANDIDATE.

JESS>> BUT, JILL, THERE'S NO LAW THAT REQUIRES A CANDIDATE TO RELEASE INCOME TAX RETURNS?

JILL STEWART>> THERE IS NO LAW, BUT THE MEDIA THESE DAYS EXPECT IT AND THE MEDIA WILL HAMMER YOU AND HAMMER YOU UNTIL YOU RELEASE THEM BECAUSE IT MAKES IT LOOK LIKE YOU'RE HIDING SOMETHING. IN THIS CASE, WHEN YOU HAVE A CANDIDATE AS AGGRESSIVE AS GRAY DAVIS AND AS SNEAKY AND, I THINK, AS DIRTY A PLAYER AS GRAY DAVIS, YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO RELEASE EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF IT. THAT 1995 STATE INCOME TAX THING IS GOING TO HAVE TO COME OUT, WHATEVER IT SAYS. THEY'RE ALMOST TURNING IT INTO THE NEW STORY, AREN'T THEY? I MEAN, THEY JUST HAVE TO SAY WHAT'S THERE.

VAL>> AND WHAT IS THIS ABOUT BASICALLY THE WHOLE IDEA ABOUT HIM RELEASING HIS TAX RETURNS HAD DIED DOWN UNTIL THE IRS IDENTIFIED SIMON AS A POSSIBLE BENEFICIARY OF AN ILLEGAL TAX SHELTER? IS THAT WHAT GOT THIS ALL --

JILL STEWART>> -- WE HAVE TWO THEORIES ABOUT THAT. TELL YOUR THEORY.

JESS>> FIRST OF ALL, HE SAYS IT WAS NOT A TAX SHELTER.

VAL>> BUT ALSO, WITHIN SIX HOURS, HOW CAN REPORTERS TELL IF THAT HAPPENED OR NOT?

ALLAN HOFFENBLUM>> LISTEN, THIS IS AN INVESTIGATION. ONE OF THE MAJOR NATIONAL ACCOUNTING FIRMS IS HAVING THIS HUGE BATTLE WITH THE IRS. IT APPEARS THAT WHAT THE IRS IS DOING IS PLAYING HARDBALL WITH THE ACCOUNTING FIRM AND, IN THE PROCESS --

VAL>> -- SIMON'S ACCOUNTING FIRM?

ALLAN HOFFENBLUM>> AN ACCOUNTING FIRM -- WHAT IS IT? KMPG, WHICH HAS THOUSANDS OF CLIENTS, AND OBVIOUSLY LISTS DOZENS UPON DOZENS OF NAMES OF PEOPLE WHO MIGHT HAVE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF A TAX SHELTER WHICH THEY BELIEVE IS ILLEGAL. MY HUNCH IS THAT THE IRS PROBABLY DIDN'T HAVE ANY IDEA THAT BILL SIMON WAS ONE OF THOSE. I'M NOT ONE OF THOSE WHO BELIEVES THERE WAS A CONSPIRATORIAL THEORY.

VAL>> SO BILL SIMON'S NAME WAS JUST ONE OF MANY THAT ARE BEING INVESTIGATED IN RELATION TO KMPG?

ALLAN HOFFENBLUM>> CORRECT.

JILL STEWART>> HE SHOWED UP ON A VERY LONG LIST AND PERHAPS IS THE ONLY CANDIDATE WHO SHOWED UP ON THAT VERY LONG LIST BECAUSE THE FEDS ARE GOING AFTER THIS ACCOUNTING FIRM FOR THINGS THE FEDS THINK ARE SHAKY.

JESS>> HAS GRAY DAVIS BEEN ABLE TO DEFLECT CRITICISM FOR HIS AVARICIOUS FUNDRAISING BY SHOWING HOW RICH THIS OTHER MAN IS?

ALLAN HOFFENBLUM>> I DON'T THINK HE'S DEFLECTED, BUT HE'S CERTAINLY BEEN ABLE TO HAVE THE POLITICAL PRESS CHANGE THE SUBJECT FOR A WHILE. THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT BILL SIMON HAD ONE OF THE WORST WEEKS IN POLITICAL CAMPAIGNING LAST WEEK BECAUSE HE WAS TOTALLY ON THE DEFENSIVE AND WAS INCAPABLE OF EVEN SAYING ANYTHING POSITIVE ON HIS PART OR REINFORCING THE NEGATIVES ON GRAY DAVIS. AS LONG AS HIS CAMPAIGN IS ON BILL SIMON, THAT'S IN THE BEST INTEREST OF GRAY DAVIS.

VAL>> JILL, WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT?

JILL STEWART>> YEAH, I AGREE WITH THAT. I THINK THAT ONE OF THE THINGS WE WILL SEE, THOUGH, BECAUSE IT'S A LONG TIME UNTIL NOVEMBER IS YOU WILL SEE STORIES ABOUT GRAY DAVIS ASKING GROUPS, ASKING SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS, FOR A MILLION DOLLARS OR A HALF MILLION DOLLARS BECAUSE HE CAN'T HELP HIMSELF. SO WE'RE GOING TO SEE STORIES LIKE THAT. GRAY DAVIS IS -- BASICALLY, WE HAVE TWO KINDS OF CANDIDATES WE THINK THE PUBLIC IS GOING TO END UP FEELING KIND OF ICKY ABOUT AND WE'RE GOING TO SEE MORE AND MORE OF THAT.

JESS>> IN GRAY DAVIS'S TAX RETURNS, HE AND HIS WIFE HAD INCOME OF ABOUT $200,000 AND PAID $55,000 IN STATE AND FEDERAL TAXES. ABOUT THE SAME RATIO AS SIMON, WASN'T IT?

JILL STEWART>> YES. IT WAS ABOUT THE SAME RATIO ON A SMALLER SCALE BECAUSE --

JESS>> -- MUCH SMALLER SCALE (LAUGHTER).

JILL STEWART>> GRAY DAVIS ISN'T A RICH GUY WHEN IT COMES TO INCOME, JUST WHEN IT COMES TO THE $50 MILLION DOLLARS HE CONTROLS FROM SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS WHO'VE GIVEN HIM CAMPAIGN MONEY.

VAL>> THEY'RE IN A MUCH, MUCH DIFFERENT LEAGUE BECAUSE BILL SIMON AVERAGED OVER ABOUT TEN YEARS ABOUT $3 MILLION DOLLARS ANNUALLY AND GRAY DAVIS IS BRINGING DOWN $200,000. THEY ARE DEFINITELY IN DIFFERENT LEAGUES, ALTHOUGH DAVIS IS IN HIS OWN LEAGUE WHEN IT COMES TO RAISING MONEY.

JILL STEWART>> EXACTLY.

JESS>> BUT HOW MUCH IS SIMON GOING TO BE HURT BY THE PUBLIC ATTITUDE NOW ABOUT CORPORATE EXECUTIVES, ABOUT THE RICH GENERALLY?

ALLAN HOFFENBLUM>> OH, I THINK, FIRST OF ALL, IT'S TOO SOON TO TELL. LISTEN, IT'S STILL A LONG WAYS TO NOVEMBER, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, EVEN THOUGH WE'RE GETTING INTO AUGUST, AND WE'RE GOING THROUGH VERY STORMY WEATHER. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE STOCK MARKET IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE THAT FIRST TUESDAY IN NOVEMBER. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT NATIONAL SECURITY IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE, WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S GOING TO BE ANOTHER SEPTEMBER 11 AND THE REACTION.

SO WE'RE STILL GOING THROUGH SOME VERY STORMY WEATHER. THE ONLY THING THAT IS A GIVEN RIGHT NOW IS THERE'S A CURRENT GOVERNOR, GRAY DAVIS, AN UNPOPULAR GOVERNOR, AND A MAJORITY OF THE ELECTORATE RIGHT NOW WOULD LIKE TO SEE AN ALTERNATIVE. WHAT'S CONFUSING ME, WHO SPENT THIRTY YEARS AS AN ACTIVE REPUBLICAN AND POLITICAL CONSULTANT, IS WONDERING WHY SINCE MARCH 23 SIMON AND HIS CAMPAIGN TEAM HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO EFFECTIVELY DEFINE HIMSELF AS TO WHY HE SHOULD BE A REASONABLE ALTERNATIVE. HE'S SPENDING ALL HIS TIME TALKING ABOUT HIS TAXES AND HIS BUSINESS PRACTICES. ALL HE HAS TO DO IS RELEASE THIS INFORMATION, LET THE VOTERS MAKE A DETERMINATION AND DON'T LET GRAY DAVIS DEFINE HIM.

VAL>> WELL, THAT'S WHAT HE SAID. HE SAID THIS HAS BECOME -- SIMON SAID THE REASON HE'S RELEASING THIS IS IT'S BECOME SO MUCH OF A DISTRACTION, HE WANTS TO GET IT OUT OF THE WAY AND MOVE ON TO THINGS THAT WILL MATTER TO VOTERS. DO YOU THINK IT WILL WORK?

JILL STEWART>> HE DID IT A MONTH TOO LATE AND HE DID IT IN SUCH A HAM-HANDED WAY THAT I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S GOING TO WORK. BASICALLY, RIGHT NOW WHAT HE HAS TO DO IS STOP CHANGING CAMPAIGN ADVISORS EVERY FEW WEEKS. HE'S ON HIS FIFTH MANAGER RIGHT NOW, FOURTH OR FIFTH MANAGER. HE IS A NAÏVE CAMPAIGNER. HE'S MAKING ALL THE MISTAKES OF A FIRST-TIME CAMPAIGNER. HE'S GOT SOMETHING LIKE 150 OR 160 PEOPLE ON HIS STAFF COMPARED TO GRAY DAVIS'S TWENTY OR THIRTY. HE'S BEEN MAKING ALL THE MISTAKES. HE'S BEEN LISTENING TO TOO MANY DIFFERENT PEOPLE. I DON'T KNOW IF HE'S GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO IT. YOU'RE RIGHT. HE'S NOT A POPULAR GOVERNOR AND YOU'D THINK HE WOULD BE ABLE TO COME UP WITH A GOOD CAMPAIGN.

VAL>> WELL, THAT WILL HAVE TO BE THE FINAL WORD. JILL STEWART, ALWAYS GREAT TO SEE YOU, FROM NEW TIMES LOS ANGELES.

JILL STEWART>> THANK YOU.

VAL>> ALLAN HOFFENBLUM, VETERAN POLITICAL CONSULTANT, THANK YOU.

LIFEANDTIMES@KCET.ORG
WWW.KCET.ORG.
LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT
4401 SUNSET BLVD.
LOS ANGELES, CA 90027
(323) 953-5555

VAL>> MORE THAN TWENTY YEARS AGO, PROPOSITION 13 -- REMEMBER THAT? -- FORCED HUGE CUTS IN SCHOOL FUNDING, BUT STUDY AFTER STUDY SHOWS THERE'S A STRONG LINK BETWEEN ARTISTIC EXPRESSION AND LEARNING.

JESS>> YOUNGSTERS WHO ARE TAUGHT ART TEST HIGHER IN ART AND READING AND A GROUP CALLED INNER-CITY ARTS HAS BEEN PICKING UP THE SLACK IN TEACHING ART TO KIDS IN L.A. IT'S RUN BY ARTIST, BOB BATES, WHO KNOWS FIRST-HAND THE IMPACT ART CAN HAVE ON CHILDREN'S LIVES.

BOB BATES>> THE AREA THAT WE HAVE OUR SCHOOL, INNER-CITY ARTS, IS A PLACE RIGHT IN THE HEART OF THE CITY. SOME PEOPLE HAVE CALLED IT SKID ROW. PEOPLE CALL IT BY MANY DIFFERENT NAMES, BUT WHAT IT REALLY IS IS LIKE IN THE HEART OF THE CITY WHERE ALL THE BUSINESSES ARE. WE'RE SURROUNDED BY PRODUCE AND LIGHT MANUFACTURING COMPANIES AND DIFFERENT KIND OF PEOPLE WORKING AROUND. WHAT WE WANTED TO CREATE FOR THE KIDS IS AN OASIS IN THE HEART OF THIS PLACE.

[FILM CLIP]

IT'S AN OASIS THAT IS LIKE A PLACE OF HOPE, A PLACE WHERE THEY CAN SEE THAT, HEY, I HAVE A BRAIN, I HAVE A HEART, I CAN EXPRESS MY FEELINGS, I HAVE A GOOD MIND, I CAN LEARN, I CAN DO THINGS, I CAN GROW AND I CAN BECOME A PART OF THIS CULTURE. THAT'S WHAT WE WANT TO DO. WE HAVE THIS WONDERFUL RELATIONSHIP WITH L.A. UNIFIED, WITH THE SCHOOL. THEY HAVE BEEN PROVIDING THE BUSING TO BRING THE CHILDREN TO US. RIGHT NOW, WE SEE ABOUT 450 KIDS EACH DAY YEAR-ROUND. SOME WILL GO TO CERAMICS, SOME WILL GO TO DANCE, SOME WILL GO TO MUSIC, SOME WILL STAY HERE IN VISUAL ARTS.

[FILM CLIP]

OUR THEORY IS THAT, IF WE CAN HELP EVERYBODY TO BECOME MORE CREATIVE AND TO APPRECIATE THE CREATIVE THINGS, THEN WE'RE RAISING A CULTURE OF CHILDREN THAT WILL GO OUT THERE AND THEY'LL GO TO A MUSEUM AND THEY'LL SAY, YEAH, I USED TO DRAW IN CHARCOAL. I'VE DONE THIS STUFF. SO THERE'S THIS KIND OF COMING TO THE CANVAS OF CREATIVITY, WHETHER THAT'S CLAY OR WHETHER THAT'S YOUR BODY IN DANCE OR WHETHER THAT'S MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS OR LISTENING OR USING YOUR VOICE. THEY'LL HAVE A WAY OF DEALING WITH IT AND EXPERIENCING IT.

NADIA>> OKAY, IT'S LIKE THIS. YOU GET TO DO A LOT OF THINGS LIKE -- LAST TIME, WE DID MASKS AND WE DID SOME KIND OF SCULPTURE WITH WIRES AND IT WAS SO FUN. YOU COULD PAINT, YOU COULD DO DRAWING.

D.J.>> I LIKE GOING TO INNER-CITY ARTS BECAUSE WE GET TO USE DIFFERENT THINGS AND EXPRESS WHAT WE REALLY WANT TO DO.

[FILM CLIP]

BOB BATES>> THE INTUITIVE AND THE RATIONAL ARE CONTINUALLY BEING USED IN ALL OF OUR PROJECTS, SO EVERYTHING THAT WE STRUCTURE IS HEAVILY BASED ON PROBLEM-SOLVING, MAKING DECISIONS. THEY MAKE MILLIONS OF DECISIONS, MILLIONS OF CHOICES. WE TALK ABOUT HOW UNIQUE THEIR WORK IS, HOW UNIQUE THEY ARE AND THAT THEY'VE GOT SOMETHING SPECIAL TO DO, BUT ONLY THEY CAN FIND OUT WHAT THAT IS.

NADIA>> I WANT TO BE A CARTOONIST WHEN I GET BIGGER AND I WANT TO BE A WRITER AND I WANT TO BE A DANCER.

D.J.>> I'D LIKE TO GO TRAVEL TO PLACES THAT ARE VERY UNKNOWN AND DO UNKNOWN THINGS. WELL, WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY, NADIA?

NADIA>> KEEP ON WORKING AND YOU'LL GET THERE FAST.

BOB BATES>> FOR ME, THE IDEA WAS A GIFT FROM GOD. I WAS MEDITATING IN MY STUDIO ONE DAY AND THIS IDEA WENT THROUGH MY MIND: GET AN ART SPACE FOR KIDS. I KIND OF SAID, OKAY, MAYBE I'LL DO THIS. I DIDN'T HAVE ANY IDEA HOW TO PUT IT TOGETHER BECAUSE I WAS AN ARTIST AND I NEEDED SOME BUSINESS PERSON TO BE ABLE TO KNOW HOW TO PUT THOSE THINGS TOGETHER.

AT ONE POINT, I MET IRVIN YEAGER, A WEALTHY DEVELOPER, AND HE HAD THE BUSINESS BRILLIANCE IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO PUT IT TOGETHER. SO WE HIT IT OFF AND THEN HE SAID TO ME ONE DAY, WHAT CAN I DO TO HELP THE CHILDREN? I SAID, GET AN ART SPACE AND LET ME TEACH THE KIDS. HE SAID, I CAN'T DO THAT. SO IT TOOK HIM TWO YEARS TO COME TO THE REALIZATION THAT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA.

ALL DURING THAT TIME, WE HAD THIS RELATIONSHIP GOING ON. HE'D HELP THE CHILDREN, HE'D BUY RADIOS FOR THEM OR SEND THEM ON TRIPS, SO IRV AND I WERE CONTINUALLY IN CONTACT WITH ONE ANOTHER. I THINK HE WAS JUST LOOKING AT ME THE WHOLE TIME AND SAID, WELL, I'LL TAKE A CHANCE AT THIS, SO WE STARTED.

[FILM CLIP]

ART IS A TOTAL MIRROR OF THE PERSON OF THE INNER SELF, SO IF A CHILD IS GOING THROUGH A DIFFICULT KIND OF THING, THAT WILL COME OUT IN THEIR WORK. IF YOU'RE SENSITIVE TO IT, YOU CAN SEE IT. ONE OF THE DISTURBING SIGNS I SAW ONCE, WE WERE DRAWING AND A LITTLE BOY HAD DRAWN A BUILDING AND THERE WAS SOMEBODY ON THE TOP OF THE BUILDING. I ASKED THE LITTLE BOY WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN AND HE SAID THE GUY'S GOING TO JUMP OFF AND KILL HIMSELF.

I THOUGHT, WOW! I THOUGHT, WELL, IS THERE ANY WAY WE COULD SAVE HIM? I MEAN, COULD SUPERMAN FLY IN AND CATCH HIM IN THE AIR? COULD SOME FIREMAN COME DOWN WITH A NET AND CATCH HIM BELOW? YOU KNOW, COULD SOMEBODY COME FROM A HELICOPTER AND DROP A ROPE DOWN TO HIM AND STUFF LIKE THAT? THE LITTLE BOY THOUGHT A LITTLE BIT AND HE WENT BACK INTO HIS DRAWING. IT'S LIKE I FELT AT THE TIME THAT I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE WAS GOING THROUGH, BUT JUST THE POSSIBILITY OF OFFERING ANOTHER ALTERNATIVE WAS HELPFUL.

IF WE LOOK BACK TO THE GREEKS OR THE ROMANS OR THE ETRUSCANS OR THE MAYANS OR WHATEVER CULTURE IT MIGHT BE, WHAT WE SEE IS THEIR ART. ALL CULTURES CREATE THIS BEAUTY AND OUR CULTURE SOMEHOW HAS THOUGHT THAT IT WASN'T IMPORTANT. WE NEED TO REALLY BRING ART BACK INTO THE MAINSTREAM FOCUS WITH ALL OF THE OTHER DISCIPLINES AND WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE THAT IT IS A DISCIPLINE IN ITSELF.

ART BRINGS A KIND OF OPEN SPACE WITHIN A HUMAN BEING AND IT BRINGS OUT ALL THESE KIND OF POTENTIALS INSIDE OF US THAT ARE SO UNIQUELY HUMAN. OUR APPROACH IS REALLY UNCONDITIONAL LOVE AND SUPPORT, SO OUT OF THAT LOVE AND THAT SUPPORT AND THAT ENCOURAGEMENT, YOU RECEIVE LOVE AND YOU GROW, YOU THRIVE IN THAT ENVIRONMENT. THIS IS THE ENVIRONMENT THAT HELPS THE HUMAN BEING TO GROW.

JESS>> YOU CAN CHECK THE NUMBER AND WEBSITE ON YOUR SCREEN FOR MORE INFORMATION.

[213-627-9621]
[WWW.INNER-CITYARTS.ORG]

VAL>> AND THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT'S PROGRAM.

JESS>> NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

TO REACH US AT LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT, CALL 323-953-5555. SEND US AN E-MAIL TO LIFEANDTIMES@KCET.ORG OR LOG ONTO OUR WEBSITE AT WWW.KCET.ORG TO SEND MESSAGES OR DOWNLOAD TRANSCRIPTS OF TONIGHT'S PROGRAM.