7/8/02

LC020708

VAL ZAVALA>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS MARLOW>> IT STARTS WITH YOUNG PEOPLE SURFING THE INTERNET AND PLAYING COMPUTER GAMES, BUT FOR ONE LOCAL TEENAGER, THOSE GAMES TURNED DEADLY.

TIM KOVAKS>> HE SHOOTS THIS GUY AND BLOWS PIECES OF HIS BRAIN MATTER ALL ACROSS THE PAVEMENT.

HAN CHO>> KIDS THESE DAYS, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE SO KNOWLEDGEABLE ON THE COMPUTER THAT IT'S JUST ANOTHER FORUM FOR GANG MEMBERS AND LITTLE KIDS TO GROW UP AND CAUSE TROUBLE AND PROBLEMS.

VAL>> ROBERT BLAKE, WYNONA RIDER, HALLE BERRY. THEY'RE ALL CELEBRITIES WHO'VE MADE RECENT TRIPS TO THE COURTROOM. BUT DO THE WHEELS OF JUSTICE TURN DIFFERENTLY WHEN THERE'S A STAR ON THE STAND? TONIGHT SUPERIOR COURT JUDGE KEVIN ROSS TALKS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN STARS GO ON TRIAL.

JESS>> IT ISN'T MAIN STREET, BUT IT DEFINITELY GOES THROUGH THE HEART OF THE REAL LOS ANGELES, A WINDING RIBBON THAT STRETCHES THROUGH THE RICHEST AND THE POOREST AREAS OF TOWN. TONIGHT WE'LL HEAD DOWN SUNSET BOULEVARD FOR A NEW LOOK AT L.A.'S FAMOUS STREET OF DREAMS.

VAL>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT
THE STATE'S LARGEST HEALTH FOUNDATION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT DIRECTLY IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CALIFORNIA'S DIVERSE COMMUNITIES. THE CALIFORNIA ENDOWMENT, A PARTNER FOR HEALTHIER COMMUNITIES.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I'M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I'M JESS MARLOW.

THEY'RE USUALLY TUCKED AWAY IN SOME ANONYMOUS CORNER OF A STRIP MALL AND, IF IT WEREN'T FOR THE LARGE NUMBER OF KIDS WHO HANG OUT THERE, YOU MIGHT NEVER NOTICE THEM. BUT CYBER CAFES ARE STARTING TO DRAW ATTENTION AND FOR MANY OF THE WRONG REASONS.

VAL>> THESE HIGH-TECH GATHERING PLACES WHERE TEENAGERS SPEND HOURS SURFING THE INTERNET ARE ALSO BECOMING HOT SPOTS FOR TEEN VIOLENCE. COMPUTER GAMES GET OUT HAND AND, IN GARDEN GROVE, THERE WAS EVEN A FATAL SHOOTING. TONIGHT GAY YEE LOOKS AT HOW THAT CITY AND OTHERS ARE TRYING TO COPE.

GAY YEE>> A YEAR AGO, THESE COPS WITH THE GARDEN GROVE GANG UNIT WOULD HAVE PATROLLED TOUGH NEIGHBORHOODS ON A FRIDAY NIGHT. NOW TIM KOVAKS AND HAN CHO ARE CHECKING OUT CYBER CAFES, WHAT SOME CALL THE GANG HANGOUTS OF THE NEW MILLENNIUM.

DUIY TRAN>> YEAH, IT'S LIKE A GANG HANGOUT, YOU KNOW? YOU KNOW, LIKE AT NIGHT, THEY JUST GO THERE AND KICK BECAUSE IT'S THE ONLY PLACE THAT'S OPEN UNTIL FOUR.

GAY YEE>> HAVE YOU SEEN ANY VIOLENCE YOURSELF?

DUIY TRAN>> YEAH, I'VE SEEN A COUPLE OF THE PEOPLE FIGHTING.

GAY YEE>> CYBER CAFES ARE CHOCK-FULL OF HIGH-SPEED COMPUTERS LINKED TO THE INTERNET. AT TWO BUCKS AN HOUR, IT'S CHEAP ONLINE ENTERTAINMENT WHERE KIDS CAN PLAY INTERACTIVE GAMES AND SEND INSTANT MESSAGES BACK AND FORTH WITH PLAYERS ALL ACROSS THE WORLD. GARDEN GROVE HAS NEARLY 25 OF THESE CYBER CAFES, OR PC ROOMS, ONE OF THE HIGHEST CONCENTRATIONS IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA.

>> WE DO. WE HAVE A NEW BUSINESS OVER HERE, A NEW CYBER CAFÉ UP ON THE SECOND STORY, THAT BUSINESS. WITHIN A ONE-MILE AREA OF THIS INTERSECTION, WE HAVE SIX DIFFERENT CYBER CAFÉ BUSINESSES.

GAY YEE>> BY SUNDAY, POLICE HAD ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO BRING IN ONE SUSPECT. IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS, THERE HAVE BEEN TWO GANG-RELATED KILLINGS THAT GARDEN GROVE POLICE CONNECT WITH THESE TRENDY NEW BUSINESSES. IN DECEMBER, WANG HOO LEE WAS STABBED IN THE HEAD WITH A SCREWDRIVER OUTSIDE A PC ROOM. LAST MONTH, A 14-YEAR-OLD, EDDIE FERNANDEZ, WAS FOLLOWED HOME FROM A CAFÉ AND GUNNED DOWN WHILE GETTING OUT OF A CAB.

ANNOUNCER>> "HE HAD NO ENEMIES. HE WAS NOT IN A GANG."

GAY YEE>> POLICE SAY HE WAS MISTAKEN FOR A GANG MEMBER.

TIM KOVAKS>> WHEN YOU HAVE A BUSINESS THAT'S OPEN LATE, WHEN YOU HAVE A BUSINESS THAT CATERS ITSELF TO MOSTLY JUVENILES AND THE JUVENILES ARE IN THERE DURING LATE HOURS AND IN LARGE NUMBERS, YOU'RE BOUND TO HAVE SOME SORT OF PROBLEMS.

GAY YEE>> AND HOW ABOUT THE GORY INTERACTIVE GAMES THAT LURE SO MANY KIDS. ONE IN PARTICULAR, "COUNTER STRIKE", CREATES A GRAPHIC MOCK BATTLE BETWEEN TERRORISTS AND COUNTER-TERRORISTS.

TIM KOVAKS>> HE SHOOTS THIS GUY AND BLOWS PIECES OF HIS BRAIN MATTER ALL ACROSS THE PAVEMENT.

GAY YEE>> THE PLAYERS OFTEN FORM TEAMS, OR CLAN, COMPETE AGGRESSIVELY AND MESSAGE EACH OTHER WITH TAUNTS, INSULTS OR GANG CHALLENGES.

DUIY TRAN>> SOME PEOPLE GET MAD JUST CAUSE THEY DIED, YOU KNOW? IT'S LIKE THEY GOT KILLED, SO THEY TYPE LIKE GIBBERISH AND THE OTHER PERSON GETS MAD AND THEY TYPE BACK AND FORTH TO EACH OTHER. SOMETIMES IT'S LIKE IT GETS BAD.

DANIEL>> THIS GAME DOES BRING UP SOME ADRENALIN AND, IN SOME CASES, IF YOU DON'T HAVE A CONTROLLED OUTLET FOR THAT ADRENALIN, WHO KNOWS WHAT HAPPENS?

HAN CHO>> THIS IS A WEBSITE HERE FOR THE TINY RASCALS.

GAY YEE>> IN SOME CASES, POLICE SAY GANGS CREATE THEIR OWN WEBSITES OFTEN POSTING INSULTS OR THREATS TO RIVALS, SORT OF LIKE TAGGING ONLINE.

HAN CHO>> SOMEONE WILL BE ON THE INTERNET, THEY WILL STATE THEIR GANG, WHERE THEY'RE FROM AND DISRESPECT WILL COME OUT THROUGH INSTANT MESSAGES, THROUGH THE COMPUTER AS THEY ARE PLAYING GAMES, WHICH WILL CREATE A LOT OF HATRED AND WHICH ULTIMATELY LEADS TO VIOLENCE.

ANNOUNCER>> "AND FOR A RASH OF VIOLENCE IN CYBER CAFES, THE GARDEN GROVE CITY COUNCIL HAS PASSED A NEW MEASURE TO TRY AND STOP IT."

GAY YEE>> GARDEN GROVE HAS COME UP WITH SEVERAL IDEAS TO CURB THE VIOLENCE. THEY INCLUDE ADDED SECURITY, A CURFEW THAT WOULD KEEP KIDS OUT OF THE CAFES DURING SCHOOL HOURS AND LATE AT NIGHT. ANOTHER MANDATES AN EARLIER CLOSING TIME.

BRUCE BROADWATER>> WE CLOSE BARS AT TWO O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING. WE DON'T TRUST ADULTS, I MEAN, AFTER TWO O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING. WHY SHOULD WE TRUST TEENAGERS UNTIL FOUR O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING?

GAY YEE>> BOTH THE KILLINGS AND THESE NEW RESTRICTIONS HAVE APPARENTLY TAKEN A TOLL ON THE CAFES. IT'S NINE O'CLOCK ON A FRIDAY NIGHT. ORDINARILY, A CYBER CAFÉ LIKE THIS WITH ITS BRAND NEW COMPUTERS WOULD BE PACKED AND A WAITING LINE OF PEOPLE ITCHING TO LOG ON. INSTEAD, WE SEE THIS: EMPTY SEATS EVERYWHERE.

>> ABOUT FORTY PERCENT OF GROSS LINE OF BUSINESS GOES DOWN, FORTY PERCENT.

GAY YEE>> A DROP OF FORTY PERCENT?

>> YES, BECAUSE OF EIGHT O'CLOCK CURFEW, BECAUSE OF FOUR O'CLOCK CLOSED.

GAY YEE>> THE OWNER OF ONE CAFÉ DIDN'T WANT HIS FACE SHOWN ON TV, BUT HE TOLD US THE RESTRICTIONS ARE UNFAIR. SOME PEOPLE THINK THAT THE REASON WHY THERE'S FEWER PEOPLE COMING TO THESE CYBER CAFES IS BECAUSE OF THE VIOLENCE. THEY'RE AFRAID OF COMING. IS THAT TRUE?

>> THAT'S NOT TRUE. BECAUSE I'M HERE EIGHT HOURS, TEN HOURS A DAY. IF THIS IS DANGEROUS, I'M NOT HERE.

GAY YEE>> KOVAKS SAYS THE BIGGEST ISSUE IS LACK OF SUPERVISION. HE POINTS OUT A RECENT CASE IN WHICH GANG MEMBERS ENTERED A CYBER CAFÉ AND ATTACKED SOMEONE. THE MANAGER NEVER NOTICED. HE WAS PLAYING A VIDEO GAME. IN GARDEN GROVE, GAY YEE FOR LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

JESS>> UCLA PROFESSOR, TIM TANGHERLINI, JOINS US NOW. ALONG WITH HIS TEACHING DUTIES AT UCLA, HE IS ALSO AN ADVISER FOR THE UNIVERSITY'S CENTER FOR DIGITAL HUMANITIES.

WHAT WE SAW WAS THE DOWN SIDE OF CYBER CAFES. IS THERE AN UP SIDE?

TIM TANGHERLINI>> I THINK THERE IS. I THINK IT GIVES PEOPLE A CHANCE TO COME TOGETHER AND FORM CERTAIN VIRTUAL COMMUNITIES. WE HEARD MENTION OF THESE CLANS THAT ARE FORMING. A LOT OF TIMES THE CLANS THAT DO FORM AT THE CYBER CAFÉ CROSS BOUNDARIES THAT PERHAPS THE YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN WHO ARE PLAYING THERE WOULDN'T NECESSARILY CROSS. SO WE FIND, AMONG SOME OF THE STUDENTS WE INTERVIEWED, WE FIND CLANS THAT ARE CROSSING A LOT OF ETHNIC BOUNDARIES THAT THE STUDENTS THEMSELVES HAVE SAID THEY PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE CROSSED OTHERWISE, CLANS WITH MEMBERSHIP FROM ALL SORTS OF DIVERSE GROUPS.

I THINK THAT'S A VERY POSITIVE THING BECAUSE IN THE FACE-TO-FACE INTERACTION, PERHAPS THE STUDENTS ARE A LITTLE BIT RELUCTANT OR THE YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN ARE A LITTLE BIT RELUCTANT TO CROSS THESE BOUNDARIES. BUT ONCE THEY'RE IN THE GAMING ENVIRONMENT, ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY'RE THINKING MORE OF WHO'S A GOOD PLAYER? WHO DO I WANT TO ASSOCIATE WITH? AND FROM THAT, YOU START TO DEVELOP THESE VIRTUAL COMMUNITIES THAT CROSS BOUNDARIES THAT MIGHT OTHERWISE --

JESS>> -- LIKE SPORTS DO.

TIM TANGHERLINI>> YEAH, MUCH LIKE SPORTS DO.

VAL>> BUT PUT THIS IN PERSPECTIVE. YOU KNOW, WE MENTIONED THE TWO KILLINGS IN THE REPORT BY GAY, BUT DO YOU THINK THOSE ARE ISOLATED CASES? DO YOU THINK THAT PERHAPS THAT'S JUST A RESULT OF WHERE THE CYBER CAFES ARE LOCATED? IF THEY'RE LOCATED IN GANG TERRITORY, YOU'RE JUST GOING TO GET GANG VIOLENCE AND OTHER CAFES ARE NOT?

TIM TANGHERLINI>> YEAH, I THINK IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF DUMB LUCK FOR SOME OF THESE CYBER CAFES THAT THEY HAPPEN TO, IN SOME WAYS, BE IN THE WRONG PLACE AT THE WRONG TIME. I THINK WE HAVE A LOT OF VIOLENCE APART FROM OR EVEN BEFORE WE HAD PC CAFES OR THE PC BANGS, AS THEY'RE KNOWN IN KOREAN. SO I DON'T THINK IT'S ANYTHING THAT NECESSARILY SPRINGS OUT OF THIS PHENOMENON. BUT AS THE OFFICER MENTIONED, ONCE YOU DO HAVE LARGE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE PERHAPS IN A SLIGHTLY ANTAGONISTIC ENVIRONMENT WITHOUT AS MUCH SUPERVISION AS YOU PERHAPS WOULD LIKE LATE AT NIGHT, HE MENTIONED THAT YOU'VE GOT A RECIPE THERE FOR VIOLENCE. I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY IT.

JESS>> THIS IS NOT JUST AN AMERICAN PHENOMENON AND INDEED IT DIDN'T START HERE, DID IT?

TIM TANGHERLINI>> NO, NO. IT'S NOT AN AMERICAN PHENOMENON SOLELY AND I THINK IT'S ACTUALLY QUITE INTERNATIONAL. THE PC CAFES THAT WE FIND THROUGHOUT LOS ANGELES, A LOT OF THEM SEEM TO BE CLOSELY LINKED TO THE PC BANG PHENOMENON THAT WE HAVE IN KOREA, A PHENOMENON THAT STARTED DURING THE RISE OF THE INTERNET. A LOT OF KOREANS DIDN'T HAVE HIGH-SPEED INTERNET ACCESS. NOW THEY DO.

IT'S VERY UBIQUITOUS, BUT THESE CAFES ROSE UP, THE PC BANG AS IT'S KNOWN, THE PC ROOM, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE USING IT FOR A WIDE VARIETY OF USES. SO YOU HAD A VERY INTERESTING RHYTHM TO THE PC BANG DURING THE DAY. IF YOU WERE TO DO SORT OF AN ETHNOGRAPHIC STUDY, YOU WOULD FIND SOME PEOPLE USING IT TO SURF THE INTERNET, SOME PEOPLE TO SEND AND CHECK E-MAIL, SOME PEOPLE TO DO THEIR WORD PROCESSING. THEN AFTER SCHOOL WOULD LET OUT, YOU'D HAVE THE KIDS COMING IN AND DOING THE GAMING.

NOW THE UBIQUITY OF THESE PLACES HAS SORT OF CHANGED THE WAY THAT THEY GET USED AND ALSO THE UBIQUITY OF HIGH-SPEED INTERNET ACCESS IN THE HOME HAS CHANGED THAT. SO NOW THEY REALLY HAVE BECOME MORE AND MORE A SITE FOR THIS INTERNET GAMING WHERE YOU CAN CONNECT ACROSS THE INTERNET.

JESS>> BUT THAT'S ALSO WHERE THE TROUBLE STARTS.

VAL>> UCLA PROFESSOR, TIM TANGHERLINI, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US TONIGHT.

TIM TANGHERLINI>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON.

VAL>> TOMORROW ON LIFE AND TIMES, WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU FALL VICTIM TO A DISEASE THAT'S POLITICALLY INCORRECT? WE'LL HEAR FROM AN EXPERT ON LUNG CANCER. HE SAYS IT'S NOT JUST A SMOKER'S DISEASE.

>> YOU NEVER SEE A "WALK FOR LUNG CANCER" OR A "RUN FOR LUNG CANCER" AS YOU WOULD FOR THE OTHER DISEASE. AND IT IS TRUE THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE MINDLESSLY BLAME THE SMOKER FOR CAUSING THEIR OWN DISEASE.

JESS>> HOLLYWOOD CELEBRITIES, AS WE HAVE SEEN, END UP IN COURT ON EVERYTHING FROM MURDER CHARGES TO SHOPLIFTING AND, WHEN THEY APPEAR, CAMERAS AND THE PRESS ARE QUICK TO FOLLOW.

VAL>> SO WHAT DOES STAR POWER DO TO OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM AND HOW DO THE COURTS ADAPT TO CELEBRITIES? TONIGHT SUPERIOR COURT JUDGE KEVIN ROSS IS HERE WITH SOME BEHIND-THE-SCENES DETAILS OF WHAT REALLY GOES ON. WELCOME. NICE TO SEE YOU, AS ALWAYS.

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> ALWAYS A PLEASURE.

JESS>> JUDGE ROSS, THERE'S NO QUESTION CELEBRITIES ARE TREATED DIFFERENTLY IN COURT?

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> YES, THEY ARE TREATED DIFFERENTLY. WHAT I THINK IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE, THOUGH, DOES DIFFERENT MEAN BETTER? BECAUSE OFTENTIMES PEOPLE JUST ASSUME, OH, THIS PERSON'S GOING TO GET OFF, THIS PERSON'S GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO THINGS THAT OTHER INDIVIDUALS WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO DO.

I REMEMBER BEING A PROSECUTOR HAVING A CASE INVOLVING A WOMAN WHO IS ON A TOP TEN SYNDICATED SHOW RIGHT NOW. YOU KNOW, A MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY SHOW. SHE WAS CHARGED WITH PETTY THEFT AND WHAT SHE WAS ABLE TO DO -- I WON'T TELL YOU HER NAME OUT OF RESPECT FOR HER -- SHE HAD HER ATTORNEY COME IN AND STAND IN FOR HER. HE CAME IN, HE ENTERED INTO THE PLEA, SHE HAD SIGNED A NOTARY, SHE NEVER MADE AN APPEARANCE.

VAL>> AND THAT'S LEGAL?

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> THAT'S COMPLETELY LEGAL.

JESS>> AND ANYBODY, NON-CELEBRITIES, COULD DO THE SAME?

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> ABSOLUTELY. THERE'S A CERTAIN SECTION OF THE PENAL CODE WHERE, IF YOU COMMIT A MISDEMEANOR, A LAWYER CAN STAND IN FOR YOU AND HANDLE THE ENTIRE PROCEEDING, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE CASES. NOW IN FELONIES, IT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT THING. SO WHEN WE SEE PEOPLE LIKE HALLE BERRY, WYNONA RIDER, ROBERT BLAKE, BECAUSE THEY ARE CHARGED WITH FELONIES, ANYTIME SOMEONE HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH THAT, YOU MUST MAKE A PHYSICAL PERSONAL APPEARANCE.

VAL>> BUT AS FAR AS THE ATTORNEY STANDING IN FOR THEM, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S AVAILABLE TO NON-CELEBRITIES.

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> RIGHT.

VAL>> IS THERE ANYTHING THAT'S SORT OF UNIQUE TO CELEBRITY STATUS?

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> I WOULD SAY ONE OF THE ISSUES OF SECURITY AND WHAT ALL GOES INTO WHEN YOU HAVE A SITUATION LIKE WITH O.J. SIMPSON DOWN AT THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE CENTER. NOT ONLY DID THAT CAUSE FOR SECURITY FOR THAT COURTROOM, BUT THE ENTIRE BUILDING THEN BECAME KIND OF LIKE THIS "CAMP O.J." SO THAT MEANS THAT MORE SHERIFF'S DEPUTIES WERE HIRED, MORE SECURITY DEVICES WERE UTILIZED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE BUILDING, WHICH MEANT THAT ANYONE WHO HAD A CASE, THEY SAW IT. THEY SAW IT FIRSTHAND.

THE LINES WERE LONGER, THERE WERE MEDIA ALL OVER THE PLACE AND WHAT THAT MEANT WAS THAT THE COURT HAD TO INCUR THOSE COSTS INVOLVED WITH THE ADDITIONAL SECURITY. SAME THING WITH THE WYNONA RIDER CASE IN BEVERLY HILLS. THERE'S ONLY ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE COURTROOMS OVER THERE TO REALLY HANDLE CRIMINAL MATTERS. BUT BECAUSE OF THE ATTENTION THAT SURROUNDS IT, YOU'VE GOT TO HIRE MORE PEOPLE, YOU'VE GOT TO PAY THEM OVERTIME, THERE HAS TO BE MORE THINGS TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT.

JESS>> THE BIG BUGABOO HAS ALWAYS BEEN PRE-TRIAL PUBLICITY, BUT IS THAT OVERPLAYED AS A RISK?

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> WELL, YOU KNOW, IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE CELEBRITIES DON'T JUST INCLUDE STARS. I MEAN, IF SOMEONE WHO HAS MONEY OR SOMEONE WHO HAS -- YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S AN ELECTED OFFICIAL OR AN ATHLETE. BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOMEONE LIKE AN OPRAH WINFREY, FOR INSTANCE. REMEMBER WHEN SHE HAD THAT CIVIL CASE? SHE BASICALLY WAS ABLE TO UTILIZE HER SHOW, MOVE HER SHOW TO TEXAS AND UTILIZE ALL THE PRE-TRIAL AND IN BETWEEN AND THAT WOULD BE AN EXAMPLE OF -- SHE PROBABLY ENAMORED THOSE JURORS TO SOME EXTENT AND I'M SURE SOME OF THE EVIDENCE --

VAL>> -- DESCRIBE THAT PHENOMENON THAT WHEN A CELEBRITY IS ON THE STAND, THAT THE JURORS CAN ACTUALLY BE, WHAT, KIND OF WOWED AND --

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> -- WELL, IT DEPENDS ON THE CELEBRITY. I MEAN, YOU LOOK AT SOMEONE LIKE SEAN PUFF DADDY COMBS, THE RAPPER. HE CAME TO COURT DRESSED, WITH HIS MOTHER, JOHNNIE COCHRAN WAS BY HIS SIDE, THEY WALKED IN, HE WAS PRAYING, SO THERE WAS A CERTAIN SENSE OF "HE'S NOT SO BAD" AND HE WAS FOUND NOT GUILTY. NOW SNOOP DOG CAME IN WITH, YOU KNOW, THE BRAIDS AND THE WHOLE BIT. HE ALSO HAD A NOT GUILTY VERDICT. SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE SITUATIONS, YOU HAD TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OF PEOPLE PRESENTING THEMSELVES EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE BOTH RAPPERS, BUT A LOT OF IT DEPENDED ON THE EVIDENCE.

NOW WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOMEONE LIKE A TUPAC SHAKUR, THE RAPPER WHO DIED, HE WAS FOUND GUILTY FOR THE CRIMES HE WAS CHARGED WITH. EVEN WITH THE SITUATION WITH O.J. SIMPSON, YOU KNOW, O.J. SIMPSON MADE FOR A VERY GOOD DEFENDANT. HE LOOKED GOOD, THERE WAS SOMETHING ABOUT -- YOU KNOW, HE HAD A CELEBRITY STATUS, BUT IT DIDN'T CARRY OVER IN THE CIVIL CASE BECAUSE THEY REALLY WERE FOCUSING IN ON THE EVIDENCE.

JESS>> BUT THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE WITH CELEBRITIES, PARTICULARLY WEALTHY CELEBRITIES. THEY'RE NOT REPRESENTED BY A PUBLIC DEFENDER. THEY PAY FOR AND GET THE BEST PAID, SOME OF THE BEST LAWYERS AVAILABLE.

VAL>> THERE ARE STARS AND STAR ATTORNEYS.

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT'S SO FUNNY ABOUT THAT IS THAT SOMETIMES PUBLIC DEFENDERS GET BAD RAPS. WHEN YOU LOOK AT PRIVATE DEFENSE ATTORNEYS AND YOU LOOK FAR ENOUGH BACK, YOU WILL FIND THAT MANY OF THEM GOT THEIR START AS PUBLIC DEFENDERS AND THEY WERE ABLE TO DO SO WELL THAT THEY WERE ABLE THEN TO GO OUT AND MAKE THEIR OWN LIVELIHOOD --

JESS>> -- BUT THE PUBLIC DEFENDER DOESN'T HAVE THE RESOURCES THAT A JOHNNIE COCHRAN HAS.

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> OH, NO, BY ALL MEANS. I MEAN, TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY ARE COUNTY EMPLOYEES AND THEY'RE UTILIZING THE SAME FACILITIES. BUT EVEN WHEN YOU LOOK AT THESE CIVIL CASES, NOT JUST CRIMINAL OR EVEN THE FAMILY COURT CASES, YOU KNOW, YOU'LL HAVE SOMEONE LIKE WHEN STEVEN SPIELBERG WAS DIVORCING HIS WIFE, AMY IRVING, WE DIDN'T HEAR ABOUT THAT DIVORCE PROCEEDING BECAUSE OFTENTIMES THEY'RE NOT ONLY ABLE TO GET THE RIGHT ATTORNEYS, BUT THEY ARE ALSO SOMETIMES ABLE TO HIRE PRIVATE JUDGES, JUDGES WHO --

VAL>> -- A PRIVATE JUDGE?

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> JUDGES WHO HAVE RETIRED --

JESS>> -- CIVIL CASES.

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> IN CIVIL CASES, AND THEY CAN HEAR -- IT'S KIND OF LIKE ARBITRATION.

VAL>> AND IT'S DONE IN PRIVATE?

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> IT'S DONE ALL THE TIME. SO, AGAIN, IT'S NOT EVEN SO MUCH THAT HE'S GETTING BETTER TREATMENT. IT'S JUST THAT HE'S GETTING HIS COURT CASE RESOLVED WITHOUT GOING THROUGH THE PUBLIC COURT SYSTEM AND WITHOUT ENGAGING IN ALL THE TIME THAT WOULD NECESSARILY --

JESS>> -- BUT ARE YOU JUDGES MORE INCLINED TO ISSUE A GAG ORDER WHEN IT'S A VERY HIGH-PROFILE CELEBRITY CASE?

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> WHEN WE THINK THAT THE CASE COULD BE NEGATIVELY IMPACTED BY ALL THE PUBLICITY. BUT THAT HAPPENS IN SITUATIONS WHERE EVEN WITH SARA JANE OLSON, WHO WASN'T SO MUCH A CELEBRITY PER SE, BUT HERE YOU HAD THIS HIGH-PROFILE CASE AND THE ATTORNEYS, I BELIEVE, WERE TRYING TO TRY THE CASE IN THE PUBLIC AND THE COURT FELT, THAT PARTICULAR JUDGE, THAT, NO, WE NEED TO KEEP THIS TO WHAT HAPPENS HERE WITH THESE JURORS.

SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT ALL THESE PEOPLE WHO HAD THESE CRIMES, WHETHER IT'S MARLON BRANDO WHO HAS A CASE PENDING RIGHT NOW INVOLVING A SUIT WITH A WOMAN WITH WHOM HE ALLEGEDLY HAD THREE CHILDREN WITH AND THEY'RE IN DIVORCE COURT, OR SOME OF THESE CRIMINAL CASES LIKE ROBERT BLAKE, IT'S NOT JUST A GIVEN THAT BECAUSE SOMEONE IS FAMOUS, BECAUSE IF JURORS DON'T LIKE INDIVIDUALS, SOMETIMES THAT CAN WORK AGAINST THEM.

VAL>> HOW ABOUT DRUG CASES? ROBERT DOWNEY, JR. WAS IN COURT CONSTANTLY.

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> RIGHT.

VAL>> ARE THEY TREATED DIFFERENTLY?

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> WELL, YOU KNOW, WHAT PEOPLE USED TO DO BEFORE PROPOSITION 36 AND THE COURT WAS REALLY FOCUSING ON TREATMENT --

VAL>> -- 36 IS THE MANDATORY DRUG REHAB.

JUDGE KEVIN ROSS>> RIGHT, REHABILITATION INSTEAD OF JAIL TIME. YOU WOULD HAVE INDIVIDUALS THAT MAY HAVE BEEN CHARGED WITH A DRUG OFFENSE, BEFORE THEY GOT TO COURT, THEY WOULD CHECK THEMSELVES INTO REHAB OR THEY WOULD CHECK THEMSELVES INTO A MALIBU FACILITY SO THAT, WHEN THEY CAME TO COURT, THE ARGUMENT WOULD BE I'M ALREADY TRYING TO DO SOMETHING TOWARDS MY REHABILITATION, THEREFORE MY CASE SHOULD BE DISMISSED.

OR IN A SITUATION LIKE A JACK NICHOLSON WHO SETTLED A LAWSUIT OUT OF COURT BECAUSE HE WAS CHARGED -- I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER, HE TOOK A GOLF CLUB AND THERE WAS SOME ROAD RAGE? ALL OF A SUDDEN, THE CASE JUST DISAPPEARED. THAT'S WHAT'S CALLED CIVIL COMPROMISE. WHEN YOU HAVE INDIVIDUALS WHO, RATHER THAN BEING CHARGED WITH A CRIMINAL CASE, THEY'LL SETTLE AND PAY FOR THE MONETARY ASPECTS OF IT WITHOUT THE CRIMINAL CHARGE.

JESS>> SO CELEBRITY DOES COUNT (LAUGHTER).

VAL>> (LAUGHTER) YES. JUDGE KEVIN ROSS, ALWAYS INTERESTING FROM YOU. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

LIFEANDTIMES@KCET.ORG
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LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT
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VAL>> THERE IS FIFTH AVENUE, THE CHAMPS ELYSEES AND SUNSET BOULEVARD, BUT HOW MANY ANGELENOS HAVE ACTUALLY DRIVEN ALL 23 MILES FROM SUNSET'S BEGINNING NEAR DOWNTOWN TO ITS FINALE AT THE PACIFIC OCEAN?

JESS>> THE VERY RICH, THE VERY POOR AND ALL THOSE IN BETWEEN ARE STRUNG ALONG THAT WINDING ASPHALT. NOW THEIR STORIES ARE CAPTURED IN A NEW PHOTO BOOK BY AMY DAWES. IT'S CALLED "SUNSET BOULEVARD: CRUISING THE HEART OF LOS ANGELES". AMY DAWES JOINS US NOW TO TALK ABOUT THOSE PICTURES AND THE STORIES BEHIND SOME OF THEM.

THIS IS QUITE A BOULEVARD TO RECORD, TOO.

AMY DAWES>> IT CERTAINLY IS.

VAL>> WHAT FIRST GAVE YOU THE IDEA TO TACKLE SUNSET BOULEVARD? IT HAS BEEN DONE BEFORE, BUT YOU FELT YOU WANTED TO DO IT DIFFERENTLY?

AMY DAWES>> RIGHT. I THINK WHAT MAKES THIS BOOK DISTINCT IS THAT, RATHER THAN JUST COVER THE SUNSET STRIP, IT COVERS THE ENTIRE BOULEVARD FROM ONE END TO THE OTHER, ALL THE NEIGHBORHOODS ALONG THE WAY AND IT TREATS EACH NEIGHBORHOOD AS A DISTINCT PLACE WITH ITS OWN PERSONALITY AND IT GETS INTO WHY IT HAS THAT PERSONALITY AND HISTORY OF THAT AND WHAT OCCURRED TO MAKE BEVERLY HILLS BEVERLY HILLS OR TO MAKE ECHO PARK ECHO PARK.

VAL>> SPEAKING OF ECHO PARK, WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT SOME OF THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT DEPICT ECHO PARK AND MAYBE YOU CAN TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THEM AS WELL.

AMY DAWES>> OKAY.

VAL>> WAS THIS ONE OF YOUR FAVORITE PLACES ALONG SUNSET BOULEVARD?

AMY DAWES>> IT'S A VERY INTERESTING PLACE, PARTLY BECAUSE OF THE EARLY MOVIE HISTORY THAT TOOK PLACE THERE NOT FAR FROM WHERE WE ARE RIGHT HERE AT KCET. THE MOVIE INDUSTRY WAS BASICALLY BORN ALONG SUNSET BOULEVARD FROM HOLLYWOOD TO EAST TO SILVER LAKE AND SO ON AND --

JESS>> -- BUT IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD, YOU'RE CAPTURING BOTH THE GLAMOUR AND THE GRIT?

AMY DAWES>> IN ECHO PARK, YEAH. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT -- IT'S AN IMMIGRANT NEIGHBORHOOD AND IT HAS A VERY DIVERSE ETHNIC MIX AND SO ON.

VAL>> I THINK WE'RE MAKING PROGRESS. WE MIGHT BE HAVING A LITTLE BIT OF TROUBLE BRINGING THEM UP. OH, HERE WE GO.

AMY DAWES>> THERE WE GO. OKAY, THAT'S THE MACK SENNETT STUDIOS WHICH, AS EARLY AS 1909, WAS THERE IN ECHO PARK AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SILENT FILM ERA. THAT'S WHERE CHARLIE CHAPLIN FIRST BROUGHT OUT HIS CHARACTER, "THE LITTLE TRAMP". IT'S ALSO WHERE GLORIA SWANSON STARTED HER CAREER AND SHE LATER APPEARED AS THE STAR OF THE MOVIE, "SUNSET BOULEVARD". FRANK CAPRA, THE FILMMAKER, ALSO GOT HIS START THERE WORKING FOR MR. SENNETT WHO SPECIALIZED IN SLAPSTICK COMEDIES.

VAL>> NOW HOW MANY DISTINCT NEIGHBORHOODS ARE THERE ALONG SUNSET BOULEVARD, WOULD YOU SAY?

AMY DAWES>> ABOUT A DOZEN, FROM ECHO PARK TO SILVER LAKE, EAST HOLLYWOOD, HOLLYWOOD, THE SUNSET STRIP, BEVERLY HILLS, BEL AIR, BRENTWOOD, PACIFIC PALISADES TO THE BEACH.

VAL>> WHICH ONE DO YOU THINK IS THE LEAST APPRECIATED OR SORT OF -- IS THERE A HIDDEN TREASURE IN THERE SOMEWHERE?

AMY DAWES>> YOU KNOW, I THINK PERHAPS EAST HOLLYWOOD IS UNAPPRECIATED. I LIVED NEAR EAST HOLLYWOOD AND THOUGHT OF IT AS VERY ORDINARY. IT'S JUST AUTO REPAIR SHOPS AND LITTLE, YOU KNOW, EATERIES AND SO ON, BUT WHAT FASCINATED ME WAS TO LEARN THAT IT WAS VITAL IN THE EARLY HISTORY OF THE MOVIES. ALL THE MAJOR STUDIOS WERE ORIGINALLY LINED UP ALONG SUNSET BOULEVARD.

IT'S SURPRISING. WARNER BROS. WAS THERE. FOX, WHICH BECAME 20TH CENTURY FOX, WAS THERE. PARAMOUNT WHERE IT IS TODAY. COLUMBIA AT THE CORNER OF SUNSET AND GOWER. THE BEGINNINGS OF UNIVERSAL WERE ACROSS THE STREET. AND D.W. GRIFFITH'S LOT WAS AT THE CORNER OF HOLLYWOOD AND SUNSET WHERE THE VISTA THEATER IS TODAY AND ACROSS THE STREET WHERE THE VON'S PARKING LOT IS TODAY ORIGINALLY WAS A VITAL --

VAL>> -- OH, THAT'S RIGHT DOWN THE STREET.

JESS>> OVER THE YEARS, WE'VE SEEN A GOOD BIT OF DECAY, BUT THERE ARE NOW EFFORTS TO RESURRECT HOLLYWOOD AND INDEED SUNSET BOULEVARD TOO.

AMY DAWES>> YEAH. THERE'S A LOT GOING ON IN HOLLYWOOD. EVEN RIGHT ON SUNSET BOULEVARD AT SUNSET AND VINE, THERE'S A NEW RETAIL AND APARTMENT COMPLEX GOING UP, THE NEW ARC LIGHT CINEMA. THEN UP ON HOLLYWOOD BOULEVARD WHERE THERE'S SO MANY BEAUTIFUL BUILDINGS FROM THE 1930'S --

JESS>> -- AND THE SUNSET STRIP IS AMONG THE BEST KNOWN SPOTS ON THE BOULEVARD, IS IT NOT?

AMY DAWES>> RIGHT. WE GO ALL INTO THE HISTORY OF THAT FROM THE GLAMOROUS NIGHTCLUB ERA OF THE -- OH, HERE WE ARE. THESE ARE CURRENT, THE WHISKY. WE HAVE A LOT OF GUIDE TO WHAT THERE IS TO DO TODAY IN TERMS OF NIGHTCLUBS AND THE HISTORY OF HOW THE HOTELS AND THE HOUSE OF BLUES HELPED TRANSFORM IT. THAT'S THE CHATEAU MARMOUNT WHICH WAS ACTUALLY THE FIRST SIGNIFICANT BUILDING BUILT ON THE STRIP IN 1929.

VAL>> OH, LOOK AT THAT.

AMY DAWES>> THAT'S FROM THE 1950'S, THAT PICTURE, AS YOU CAN TELL BY THE BILLBOARD WITH THE PICTURE OF THE CAR.

JESS>> THE 1960'S WAS ALSO THE SCENE OF THE TEENYBOPPER RIOTS.

AMY DAWES>> RIGHT. A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE THAT THE FIRST RIOTS WERE ON THE SUNSET STRIP AS A RESULT OF A --

JESS>> -- SCHWAB'S DRUGSTORE, YEAH.

VAL>> AS A RESULT OF WHAT?

AMY DAWES>> A CONFLICT BETWEEN THE YOUNG PEOPLE WHO WERE STARTING TO FILTER IN AS THE MUSIC CAUGHT ON AND THE YOUTH CULTURE HAPPENED AND THE MERCHANTS WHO FOUND THEM VERY THREATENING WITH THEIR HAIR AND THEIR CLOTHES AND WANTED TO KEEP THEM MOVING ALONG INSTEAD OF CONGREGATING AT THESE NEW NIGHTCLUBS.

JESS>> ALSO, THEY HAD A TEN O'CLOCK CURFEW, AS I RECALL, AND THOSE YOUNG PEOPLE WERE NOT THRILLED WITH THAT EITHER AS SHERIFF DEPUTIES TRIED TO ENFORCE THAT.

AMY DAWES>> YEAH. APPARENTLY, YOU WERE ON THE SCENE AS A NEWS REPORTER, WEREN'T YOU? (LAUGHTER) AT PANDORA'S BOX IN 1966?

JESS>> WE SPENT A LOT OF EVENINGS OUTSIDE PANDORA'S BOX WATCHING THE ACTIVITY AND RECORDING IT.

VAL>> THAT'S AMAZING. WHAT DID YOU LEARN ABOUT SUNSET BOULEVARD THAT SURPRISED YOU?

AMY DAWES>> OH, ALL KINDS OF THINGS. YOU KNOW, THERE'S ALL KINDS OF HIDDEN STORIES LIKE THE ORIGINAL CHINATOWN WHERE THEY HAD THE OPIUM DENS AND THE GAMBLING IS BURIED UNDER UNION STATION. THE NEW CHINATOWN THAT EXISTS WAS SORT OF AN ANSWER TO, YOU KNOW, THE FRIGHTENING REPUTATION OF THE ORIGINAL AND A CHANCE FOR THE BUSINESSMEN TO START ANEW.

VAL>> UNION STATION ITSELF ALMOST DIDN'T GET BUILT.

AMY DAWES>> EXACTLY. THAT'S ANOTHER GREAT STORY IN THE BOOK. THE RAILROADS FOUGHT IT. THERE WERE THREE RAILROADS ALL WITH THEIR OWN STATIONS. THE CITY TRIED TO ENTICE THEM TO BUILD SOMETHING MORE MAGNIFICENT SO THAT WHEN PEOPLE ARRIVED HERE, THEY WOULD BE IMPRESSED WITH THE CITY.

VAL>> BUT THEY DIDN'T WANT TO GIVE UP THEIR OWN STATION?

AMY DAWES>> THEY DIDN'T WANT TO BOTHER. WHY SHOULD THEY, THEY THOUGHT. SO THEY FOUGHT IT FOR FIFTEEN YEARS IN THE COURTS AND ALL THE WAY TO THE SUPREME COURT. BY THE TIME THE SUPREME COURT FINALLY DECIDED THAT THEY HAD TO DO IT, IT WAS CLOSE TO 1939 AND THE RAILROAD ERA WAS NEARLY OVER. SO UNION STATION IS KNOWN AS THE LAST OF THE GREAT TRAIN STATIONS FOR THAT REASON, THAT IT WAS THE LAST BIG ONE THAT ANYONE INVESTED IN. BUT HAPPILY FOR THE STATION, IT DID OPEN AT A VERY IMPORTANT TIME BECAUSE WORLD WAR II BROKE OUT RIGHT AFTER THAT AND IT WAS A PORT FOR ALL THE MILITARY PERSONNEL TO COME IN HERE, SO IT DID PLAY A VITAL ROLE.

JESS>> TODAY IT'S A GREAT EXAMPLE OF RESTORATION AND REGARD FOR SOME OF THE OLD STRUCTURES. IS THERE MORE OF THAT ALONG SUNSET BOULEVARD? MORE AN EFFORT TO CAPTURE THE PAST AND HOLD ONTO IT?

AMY DAWES>> I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE HOTELS ARE DOING A LOT TO CAPTURE THEIR HISTORY.

JESS>> THE CINERAMADOME WAS SAVED.

AMY DAWES>> THAT WAS SAVED, AND A PIECE OF THE OLD SUNSET TAV BUILDING AT SUNSET AND VINE HAS BEEN SAVED.

JESS>> ALL RIGHT. THE BOOK IS "SUNSET BOULEVARD: CRUISING THROUGH THE HEART OF LOS ANGELES". AMY DAWES, THANKS FOR BEING WITH US.

AMY DAWES>> THANK YOU.

VAL>> THANK YOU SO MUCH. THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR THIS EVENING. YOU CAN FIND LIFE AND TIMES TRANSCRIPTS AND STREAMING AUDIO ON OUR WEBSITE AT WWW.KCET.ORG. CHECK IT OUT.

JESS>> THANKS FOR WATCHING. NOW FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES, GOOD NIGHT AND HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

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