9/17/01

LC010917

VAL>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS>> FOR DAYS, WE HAVE WATCHED THE IMAGES OF MASS DESTRUCTION AND HUMAN TRAGEDY. TONIGHT WE TALK WITH TWO EXPERTS ABOUT THE PSYCHOLOGICAL TOLL OF TERRORIST ATTACKS ESPECIALLY ON CHILDREN.

RACHEL HOWARD>> I WILL BE MORE AWARE OF PEOPLE AND I'LL BE MORE AWARE OF STRANGERS AND I'LL BE MORE AWARE OF THINGS THAT HAPPEN IN THE WORLD AND I WON'T FEEL THE SAME, BUT I'LL FEEL LIKE I KNOW WHAT THIS IS. I KNOW IT HAPPENS SOMETIMES EVEN THOUGH I DON'T WANT IT TO.

VAL>> AND WHILE THE NATION STRUGGLES TO COPE WITH THE TRAUMA, AN INTERNATIONALLY-ACCLAIMED EXPERT SAYS THERE'S REALLY ONLY ONE WAY TO END TERRORISM.

RICHARD HRAIR DEKMEJIAN>> CONFLICTS LIKE THE ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT, FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT HOW MUCH LAND AND BORDERS AND SO ON MAKE ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE. THE ONLY WAY PEOPLE ARE GOING TO LIVE TOGETHER ON THIS EARTH FROM THE MIDDLE EAST TO HERE IS FOR THEM TO COME TO GRIPS WITH THEIR HUMANITY AND TALK ABOUT AND RESOLVE THEIR PROBLEMS.

JESS>> EXERCISE COMES HIGHLY RECOMMENDED AS A STRESS RELIEVER, BUT ONE MAN'S EXERCISE ROUTINE HAS MADE HIM A SOURCE OF WONDER FOR PEOPLE ALONG HIS ROUTE. WE'LL INTRODUCE YOU TO L.A.'S WALKING MAN.

VAL>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE JAMES IRVINE FOUNDATION
WHICH IS DEDICATED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF AN INFORMED CALIFORNIA CITIZENRY.

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA COMMUNITY FOUNDATION
UNDERWRITING THE SPANISH LANGUAGE TRANSLATION OF LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I'M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I'M JESS MARLOW.

WHEN TERRORISTS STRUCK ON A MASSIVE SCALE ON AMERICAN SOIL FOR THE FIRST TIME, THEY DID MORE THAN DAMAGE HIGHLY-VISIBLE BUILDINGS. THEY ALSO STRUCK AT THE VERY CORE OF THIS NATION'S SELF-IMAGE AS A FREE AND OPEN SOCIETY.

VAL>> THE COLLAPSE OF THE WORLD TRADE TOWERS AND THE ATTACK ON THE PENTAGON AROUSED SOME UNCOMFORTABLE FEELINGS. THEY MADE MANY AMERICANS FEEL VULNERABLE AND, AT THE SAME TIME, ANGRY THAT THIS COULD HAPPEN ON OUR HOME TURF. HOW CAN FAMILIES AND INDIVIDUALS HELP EACH OTHER DEAL WITH THESE FEELINGS?

JESS>> WE'VE INVITED TWO EXPERTS TO HELP US ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS. JOE HICKS IS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE LOS ANGELES HUMAN RELATIONS COMMISSION, AND JAMES GARBARINO OF CORNELL UNIVERSITY IS AN EXPERT ON HELPING PARENTS DEAL WITH CHILDREN'S INSECURITIES.

MR. GARBARINO, YOU WRITE "THE COMING DAYS AND WEEKS WILL TEACH CHILDREN AND YOUTH A GREAT DEAL ABOUT JUSTICE, COMPASSION AND REVENGE." IN WHAT WAY?

JAMES GARBARINO>> WELL, IN THE IMMEDIATE CRISIS, THE ISSUE IS CERTAINLY GOING TO BE, AND HAS BEEN, REASSURING CHILDREN, DEALING WITH THEIR FEARS, PARENTS NOT BEING PSYCHOLOGICALLY AVAILABLE BECAUSE THEY'RE SO WRAPPED UP IN THE NEWS COVERAGE. AND AS WE MOVE DOWN THE PERIOD OF THE COMING WEEKS, MORE AND MORE THERE'S GOING TO BE TALK ABOUT WHAT DO YOU NEXT? REVENGE, RETALIATION, AND I THINK CHILDREN ARE GOING TO BE WATCHING US TO SEE WHAT WE EMPHASIZE, WHAT WE VALUE.

ARE WE REALLY TALKING ABOUT BRINGING PEOPLE TO JUSTICE OR ARE WE TALKING ABOUT BLOOD REVENGE? ARE WE TALKING ABOUT CELEBRATING THE PEOPLE WHO HELP OR SORT OF TAKING OUT OUR RAGE AGAINST PEOPLE, AND THEREBY CREATING MORE INNOCENT VICTIMS, MORE COLLATERAL DAMAGE AND ULTIMATELY PROVOKING A FURTHER CYCLE OF VIOLENCE?

CHILDREN ARE GOING TO SEE THAT. THEY'RE GOING TO WONDER HOW IT APPLIES TO THEIR LIFE AT HOME, IN THEIR SCHOOL, IN THEIR COMMUNITY AND, OF COURSE, THEY'RE GOING TO BE TEMPTED TO TAKE THINGS OUT ON SCAPEGOATED GROUPS, GROUPS WHO ARE IDENTIFIED AS BEING "LIKE" THE PERPETRATORS. SO IT'S REALLY GOING TO DEMAND A LOT OF HIGH-QUALITY LEADERSHIP AT EVERY LEVEL, FROM THE PRESIDENT ON DOWN.

JESS>> FROM PRESIDENTS TO PARENTS.

VAL>> THAT'S RIGHT.

JAMES GARBARINO>> FROM PRESIDENTS TO PARENTS.

VAL>> JOE HICKS, YOU'VE BEEN DEALING WITH THIS IN GROUPS NO DOUBT VERY INVOLVED IN HUMAN RELATIONS IN THE WAKE OF THE ATTACKS. WHAT HAVE YOU SEEN AND WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNED ABOUT SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA?

JOE HICKS>> WELL, I'M ENCOURAGED, IN FACT, ABOUT WHAT I'VE SEEN LOCALLY HERE. IN FACT, THE KIND OF INCIDENTS THAT, YOU KNOW, I THINK YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT WITH PEOPLE TAKING OUT THEIR REVENGE ON PEOPLE WHO MAY LOOK LIKE AT LEAST OUR PERCEPTION OF WHO THE PERPETRATORS ARE DOES SEEM TO BE VERY WIDESPREAD AT THIS PARTICULAR POINT. THEY'RE RELATIVELY SPORADIC. THE MORE SERIOUS INCIDENTS HAVE TAKEN PLACE BACK EAST.

LOCALLY HERE, THEY'VE BEEN RELATIVELY RARE AND THAT SAYS SOMETHING GOOD ABOUT US. I THINK THERE IS HOPEFULLY GOING TO BE AN ACCEPTANCE OF THE MESSAGE THAT MANY PEOPLE ARE SENDING OUT THAT, YOU KNOW, MUSLIM-AMERICANS, ARAB-AMERICANS ARE, AFTER ALL, IN FACT AMERICANS. MANY OF THEM ARE SUFFERING AND HURTING AND ARE JUST AS APPALLED BY WHAT THEY SEE AS ANY OTHER AMERICAN WOULD BE AT THIS POINT.

VAL>> AND THEY'VE BEEN VICTIMS THEMSELVES. YOU SAID YOU KNEW OF A MUSLIM GENTLEMAN WHO LOST RELATIVES?

JOE HICKS>> WELL, IT DOESN'T TAKE A ROCKET SCIENTIST, IN FACT, TO LOOK AT SOME OF THOSE IMAGES COMING OUT FROM BOTH IN FRONT OF THE PENTAGON AND IN FRONT OF THOSE TWIN TOWERS TO SEE THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SUFFERING, STUMBLING THROUGH THE WRECKAGE WITH PICTURES OF THEIR RELATIVES COME IN EVERY COLOR, EVERY ETHNIC BACKGROUND, OF ALL AMERICANS.

IN ADDITION, I'VE HEARD SOME HEART-WRENCHING STORIES LOCALLY HERE BECAUSE I'VE BEEN COMMUNICATING A GREAT DEAL WITH MUSLIM-AMERICANS AND ARAB-AMERICANS LOCALLY HERE. I HEARD A STORY JUST THE OTHER DAY THAT JUST BROKE YOUR HEART ABOUT A GENTLEMAN WHOSE BROTHER -- HE'S A MUSLIM CLERIC HERE IN LOS ANGELES -- HIS BROTHER WHO LIVES IN NEW YORK LOST BOTH OF HIS CHILDREN, A 19-YEAR-OLD SON AND A 23-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER, IN THOSE TWIN TOWERS. SO THEY ARE SUFFERING JUST AS WE ARE SUFFERING AND WE SIMPLY MUST NOT ALLOW ANY AMERICAN SEEING PEOPLE WHO ARE MUSLIMS OR ARABS AS SOME OF THE "OTHER". THEY ARE NOT, THEY ARE US.

JESS>> YOU TALK ABOUT THE IMAGES THAT TELEVISION IN PARTICULAR IS PRESENTING AND WE TALK ABOUT CHILDREN AND THEIR ATTITUDES AND HOW THEY REACT. WHEN WE SAW -- HERE WE'RE SEEING AMERICANS SHOWING THEIR PATRIOTISM AND POSSIBLY A BIT OF THEIR ANGER TOO. BUT IN SOME OF THE PALESTINIAN WORLD, WE SAW PEOPLE APPLAUDING THE TRAGEDY AND AMONGST THOSE WERE CHILDREN.

JAMES GARBARINO>> WELL, I THINK THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF HOW FAR THINGS CAN GO WHEN YOU MAKE A SIMPLE PICTURE THAT IT'S GOOD AND EVIL BECAUSE, IN OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD, WE'RE SEEN AS EVIL. IF YOU GET BEYOND THAT TO LOOK AT THE FACT THERE'S A HUMAN STORY BEHIND EVERYBODY'S CASE, THAT THERE'S ALWAYS A WAY OF UNDERSTANDING DEEPER THAN SIMPLY ANGER, IN THINK IN THE LONG RUN IT WILL SUSTAIN OUR DEMOCRATIC VALUES.

JESS>> YOU SUGGEST WE UNDERSTAND THE ACTION TAKEN BY THOSE WHO PLUNGED THE PLANES INTO THOSE TWO TOWERS AND INTO THE PENTAGON?

JAMES GARBARINO>> I THINK WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND IT, NOT TO EXCUSE IT, BUT UNDERSTAND IT THE WAY WE WOULD ANY CRIMINAL ACT. CRIMINALS ACTS OCCUR FROM A PERSON WHO LOOKS AT THE WORLD IN A PARTICULAR WAY. MOSTLY THESE AREN'T CRAZY PEOPLE AND IT'S EASY TO REASSURE PEOPLE, INCLUDING CHILDREN, BY SIMPLY SAYING THESE ARE MONSTERS, THESE ARE ANIMALS, THESE ARE CRAZY PEOPLE. BUT THAT'S SORT OF WHAT THEY'RE DOING ON THE OTHER SIDE, AND --

VAL>> -- BUT ARE YOU TELLING PARENTS NOT TO TELL THEIR CHILDREN THAT THESE WERE EVIL ACTS? I MEAN, THEY WERE, HORRIBLY --

JAMES GARBARINO>> I'M TELLING PEOPLE THAT I THINK PEOPLE NEED TO REASSURE THEIR CHILDREN, BUT IN WAYS THAT OPEN THE POSSIBILITY FOR UNDERSTANDING LATER ON. THESE WERE BAD ACTS. THESE WERE PEOPLE FULL OF RAGE AND PARTLY WHAT IT SHOWS IS THE DANGER OF BEING FULL OF RAGE AND BLOOD REVENGE. IT'S WHY WE HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, LIVE BY THE LAW. IT'S WHY WE HAVE TO BRING PEOPLE TO JUSTICE. IT'S WHY WE HAVE TO TEACH CHILDREN TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND THINGS AS DEEPLY AS WE CAN AND AVOID THE TEMPTATION TO SIMPLY DEMONIZE AND MONSTERIZE THE ENEMY, WHOEVER IT IS.

JESS>> BUT YOU TALKED ABOUT CHILDREN LEARNING A GREAT DEAL ABOUT JUSTICE, COMPASSION AND REVENGE.

JOE HICKS, IS REVENGE PART OF THIS QUOTIENT THAT WE OUGHT TO PAY ATTENTION TO ALSO?

JOE HICKS>> WELL, I THINK WE DO HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION TO IT, I THINK. THERE IS A RIGHTFUL PLACE FOR ANGER AND RESENTMENT ABOUT WHAT TOOK PLACE. I MEAN --

JESS>> -- AND FOR RETALIATION?

JOE HICKS>> WELL, I WOULDN'T SAY RETALIATION AS MUCH AS I THINK THERE'S AN EXPECTATION THAT PEOPLE WHO COMMIT CRIMINAL ACTS BE BROUGHT TO JUSTICE. AND FRANKLY, I'VE HEARD FAIRLY MEASURED COMMENTS COMING OUT FROM THE PRESIDENT AND OTHERS WHO BASICALLY MADE THAT CALL. I HAVE NOT AT THIS POINT, THOUGH THERE IS SOME INTERPRETATION IT MAY DIFFER. BUT WHAT I'VE HEARD THE PRESIDENT AND OTHERS SAY, OF RESPONSIBLE NATIONAL LEADERSHIP, IS THAT WE MUST BRING THESE CRIMINALS TO JUSTICE.

I THINK THERE'S NO DENYING THAT THESE ARE CRIMINAL ACTS OF THE HIGHEST ORDER AND I THINK, IN MANY WAYS, OUR CHILDREN WOULD EXPECT THAT BECAUSE THERE'S ALSO A CERTAIN ORDER TO THE WORLD THAT PEOPLE WHO COMMIT CRIMINAL ACTS, SUCH AS SOMEONE WHO BREAKS INTO YOUR HOME AS A BURGLAR, YOU WOULD EXPECT THAT THAT PERSON BE CAUGHT AND IN FACT PROSECUTED FOR THAT ACT, SO THERE MUST BE SOME RESOLUTION.

IT CAN'T BE HAPHAZARD. THE STRIKES CAN'T BE AGAINST INNOCENT PEOPLE. YOU CAN'T CARPET-BOMB THE MIDDLE EAST, BUT THERE MUST BE SOME WAY TO BRING THESE KIND OF PEOPLE WHO DID THIS AND OTHERS WHO MAY BE CONTEMPLATING DOING THESE KINDS OF THINGS IN THE FUTURE, I THINK MUST BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE AND BROUGHT TO JUSTICE. THAT, I THINK, WILL HELP CHILDREN UNDERSTAND THE WORLD IN A FAIRLY DECENT WAY.

VAL>> SO A LOT OF WHAT OUR CHILDREN LEARN FROM THIS WILL BE DETERMINED VERY MUCH BY THE EVENTS, NOT JUST WHAT THEIR PARENTS MAY SAY OR THE LANGUAGE THAT THEIR TEACHERS USE, BUT BY, FOR EXAMPLE, WHETHER WE'RE SUCCESSFUL IN CATCHING THE PERPETRATORS, NO?

JAMES GARBARINO>> WELL, THAT'S CERTAINLY TRUE. ONE OF THE THINGS YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND IS PARENTS HAVE CONTROL ONLY OVER SOME OF THE OUTCOMES FOR THEIR CHILDREN.

VAL>> YES. ONLY PART.

JAMES GARBARINO>> I MEAN, BAD THINGS HAPPEN TO GOOD FAMILIES, BAD THINGS HAPPEN TO GOOD COUNTRIES, AND FINDING A WAY TO HELP CHILDREN SEE THAT WHAT WE DO IS CONSISTENT WITH OUR HIGHEST VALUES, NOT OUR LOWEST IMPULSES. IT'S GOING TO BE VERY IMPORTANT AT HOME AND ABROAD.

JESS>> WE ASKED MR. HICKS ABOUT RETALIATION RATHER THAN REVENGE. IS RETALIATION A NECESSARY ELEMENT ALSO?

JAMES GARBARINO>> WELL, I THINK THE FOCUS OUGHT TO BE ON JUSTICE AND OUR HIGHEST STANDARDS OF JUSTICE.

JESS>> WHICH CAN INVOLVE RETALIATION, THEN? PUNISHMENT AS A RETALIATION MAYBE?

JAMES GARBARINO>> WELL, I THINK PERHAPS CERTAINLY BRINGING THE OFFENDING PARTIES AND HAVING CHILDREN SEE THAT. YOU KNOW, DURING THE GULF WAR, I INTERVIEWED CHILDREN AND ASKED THEM WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN TO SADDAM HUSSEIN. LOTS OF KIDS SIMPLY SAID, YOU KNOW, KILL HIM, BOMB HIM, BUT OTHER KIDS SAID, NO, BRING HIM TO JUSTICE AND BRING HIM BEFORE THE LAW. THAT, I THINK, IS THE HIGHEST ASPIRATION AND ONE WE OUGHT TO SUBSCRIBE TO.

VAL>> JAMES GARBARINO, AUTHOR OF "PARENTS UNDER SIEGE", THANK YOU SO MUCH. JOE HICKS WITH THE LOS ANGELES HUMAN RELATIONS COMMISSION, THANK YOU FOR COMING IN.

WE ALSO WANT TO MENTION, AS WE MENTIONED, YOU HAVE A BOOK CALLED "PARENTS UNDER SIEGE: WHY YOU ARE THE SOLUTION AND NOT THE PROBLEM IN YOUR CHILD'S LIFE".

JESS>> THE SUDDENNESS AND EXACTNESS OF LAST WEEK'S ATTACKS TOOK EVERYONE BY SURPRISE, INCLUDING THE COUNTRY'S TOP EXPERTS ON TERRORISM.

VAL>> WE TRACKED DOWN ONE OF THOSE EXPERTS, USC PROFESSOR RICHARD DEKMEJIAN, AND WE GAVE HIM THE TOUGH JOB TRYING TO PREDICT WHAT THE TERRORISTS MIGHT DO NEXT.

JESS>> DR. DEKMEJIAN, LAST YEAR YOU PRODUCED A SIX-HOUR DOCUMENTARY CALLED "TERRORISM IN THE SHADOWS". IT'S NO LONGER IN THE SHADOWS.

RICHARD HRAIR DEKMEJIAN>> YES. ACTUALLY, THAT WAS ABOUT TEN YEARS AGO FOR THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL. NO, WE EXPECTED IT TO COME OUT OF THE SHADOWS AND IT HAS.

VAL>> IS IT INEVITABLE THAT WE BECAME A TARGET? WAS IT JUST A MATTER OF TIME THAT THE UNITED STATES WAS HIT?

RICHARD HRAIR DEKMEJIAN>> YES. ACTUALLY, WE'VE BEEN WARNING, YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS HAPPENING MUCH EARLIER. WHEN THE 1993 FEBRUARY ATTACK CAME ON THE WORLD TRADE CENTER, THAT WAS THE OPENING SHOT, AND THERE ARE MANY REASONS FOR IT. WE ARE THE SUPER POWER, AFTER ALL, AND WE DO HAVE A FOREIGN POLICY THAT VERY OFTEN DOESN'T SIT IN WELL WITH SOME PARTS OF THE GLOBAL VILLAGE AND WE HAVE A RESPONSE TO IT.

JESS>> AND OUR FOREIGN POLICY IS UNLIKELY TO CHANGE. WHAT CAN WE EXPECT NEXT?

RICHARD HRAIR DEKMEJIAN>> WELL, MORE TROUBLE. THE DIALECTIC OF ATTACK AND COUNTER-ATTACK WHICH HAS BEEN GOING ON IN WORLD HISTORY AND, OF COURSE, IN THE ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT WILL NEVER STOP UNLESS AT SOME POINT PEOPLE SAY LET'S LOOK AND SEE WHAT OUR DIFFERENCES ARE AND SEE IF WE CAN BRIDGE THEM.

VAL>> SO THE ONLY WAY TO REALLY SOLVE THIS IS NOT TO WIPE THEM OUT MILITARILY, BUT TO SOLVE THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM? THE DIFFERENCES?

RICHARD HRAIR DEKMEJIAN>> THAT'S CORRECT. WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO WIPE OUT BIN LADEN AND HIS PARTICULAR GROUPING IN AFGHANISTAN, BUT THERE ARE MANY, MANY PEOPLE THROUGHOUT THE ISLAMIC WORLD WHO BELIEVE IN HIS IDEOLOGY. NOW THIS IS AN EXTREMIST IDEOLOGY, BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN IT, AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

JESS>> SHOULD OUR FOCUS BE ON FERRETING OUT, IDENTIFYING AND PUNISHING THOSE INVOLVED IN THE NEW YORK AND WASHINGTON TERRORIST ACTS OR SHOULD WE REALLY BE FOCUSING ON TRYING TO ELIMINATE THE CULTURE OF TERRORISM, OR IS THAT POSSIBLE?

RICHARD HRAIR DEKMEJIAN>> AS THE FIRST STEP, THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT WE SHOULD BE PUNISHING THOSE WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE. THAT IS INESCAPABLE. THAT IS NATURAL. ALTHOUGH THE TARGET HAS TO BE CLEARLY SELECTED, AUTHORSHIP HAS TO BE ESTABLISHED AND THERE SHOULD NOT BE, OR MINIMIZED, COLLATERAL DAMAGE.

JESS>> WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT PUNISHING HOST GOVERNMENTS, THEN, WHO HAVE SHELTERED TERRORISTS?

RICHARD HRAIR DEKMEJIAN>> WELL, IF THAT HOST GOVERNMENT IS THE TALIBAN, THEN ONE MIGHT CONSIDER THAT. BUT ONCE YOU DO THESE THINGS, YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THERE COULD VERY WELL BE A RESPONSE. THAT'S NUMBER ONE. NUMBER TWO, WE NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AT OUR FOREIGN POLICY WITH RESPECT TO THE ISLAMIC COUNTRIES AND, IN THE LONG TERM, DEAL WITH THE OUTSTANDING PROBLEMS.

VAL>> I'D LIKE TO GO BACK. YOU SAID THAT THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING. IT WAS A MATTER OF TIME. WHAT CAN WE EXPECT IN THE FUTURE? WILL THEY NECESSARILY USE AN AIRPLANE AS A WEAPON? MIGHT THEY USE GERM WARFARE? MIGHT THEY USE NUCLEAR WEAPONS? WHAT ELSE IS IN THEIR ARSENAL THAT WE MIGHT SEE?

RICHARD HRAIR DEKMEJIAN>> THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I WANT TO TALK ABOUT NEXT. OUR EXPECTATION -- MANY OF US EXPECTED THAT FUTURE TERRORISM ATTACKS, NOT SIMPLY FROM OSAMA BIN LADEN, BUT ALL KINDS OF OTHER ATTACKS OF TERRORISTS THAT WE'VE HAD AROUND THE WORLD, WOULD BE OF A BIOLOGICAL, FISSIONABLE MATERIALS OR CHEMICAL TYPE, WHICH WOULD BE MUCH WORSE THAN THIS, BY THE WAY. 

VAL>> WOW, THAT'S FRIGHTENING.

RICHARD HRAIR DEKMEJIAN>> THERE'S NO REAL DEFENSE TOWARD THAT KIND, OR LIMITED DEFENSE. WHAT WE DID NOT EXPECT, WHAT I DID NOT EXPECT, WAS THE MATING OF TWO OLD TECHNIQUES OF TERRORISM: THE AIRPLANE HIJACKING TECHNIQUE FROM THE 1960'S AND 70'S AND THE TRUCK BOMBING TECHNIQUE FROM THE 1980'S AND 90'S. THOSE TWO THINGS WERE PUT TOGETHER AND THEY SURPRISED EVERYBODY IN THIS SCHOLARLY OR INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY.

JESS>> IF WE WONDER WHERE TERRORISTS MIGHT GET HOLD OF BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS, WE HAVE TO LOOK NO FURTHER PERHAPS THAN SADDAM HUSSEIN AND IRAQ?

RICHARD HRAIR DEKMEJIAN>> WELL, THAT'S ONE SOURCE. BUT ONE HAS TO REMEMBER THAT, WHEN IT COMES TO CHEMICAL WEAPONS, THEY'RE NOT REALLY HIGH-TECH. AUM SHINRIKYO OF JAPAN PRODUCED IT ONLY IN 1995.

VAL>> BUT THIS IS FRIGHTENING. IF YOU'RE SAYING THAT'S ACTUALLY HARDER TO GUARD AGAINST BIOLOGICAL WARFARE, I MEAN, THAT LEAVES US EVEN MORE VULNERABLE THAN WE --

RICHARD HRAIR DEKMEJIAN>> -- OH, OF COURSE. TERROR IS GLOBALIZED AS EVERYTHING ELSE ON THIS EARTH. WE'VE SEEN THE GLOBALIZATION OF TERROR ONLY YESTERDAY, ONE FORM OF IT. BUT IF THIS WAS BACTERIOLOGICAL OR BIOCHEMICAL, GAS OR NUCLEAR -- NOT THE BOMB, BUT FISSIONABLE MATERIAL -- IT WOULD BE FAR MORE DEVASTATING. THIS IS WHY CONFLICTS LIKE THE ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT, FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT HOW MUCH LAND AND BORDERS AND SO ON, MAKE ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE. THE ONLY WAY PEOPLE ARE GOING TO LIVE TOGETHER ON THIS EARTH FROM THE MIDDLE EAST TO HERE IS FOR THEM TO COME TO GRIPS WITH THEIR HUMANITY AND TALK OUT AND RESOLVE THEIR PROBLEMS.

JESS>> AND TERRORISM WILL NOT END UNTIL WE DO THAT?

RICHARD HRAIR DEKMAJIAN>> EXACTLY. AND IT HAS TO BE DONE WORLDWIDE.

VAL>> SO WHEN I HEAR YOU SPEAK LIKE THIS, IT MAKES THE NEW FAA SECURITY REGULATIONS AT THE AIRPORT LOOK ALMOST NECESSARY, BUT SILLY OR --

RICHARD HRAIR DEKMEJIAN>> -- WELL, NOT SILLY. IN AN IMMEDIATE SENSE, ALL OF THAT IS VERY NECESSARY. I MEAN, WE HAVEN'T BEEN TAKING THOSE THINGS SERIOUSLY, OF COURSE. WE KNOW THAT. EVERY TIME WE FLY, I CAN SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING. BUT ALL OF THOSE THINGS NEED TO BE DONE, BUT THESE ARE IMMEDIATE RESPONSES. IN TERMS OF THE LONG-RANGE, WE NEED TO LOOK INSIDE US AND WE NEED TO LOOK AT OUR FOREIGN POLICY. IT HAS TO BE A FOREIGN POLICY OF ENGAGEMENT WITH AREAS WHICH ARE HAVING TROUBLE, ESPECIALLY THE MIDDLE EAST IN THIS CASE, AS WELL AS AFGHANISTAN ITSELF.

VAL>> RICHARD DEKMEJIAN, PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE FROM USC, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR THOUGHTS.

RICHARD HRAIR DEKMEJIAN>> MY PLEASURE.

LIFEANDTIMES@KCET.ORG
WWW.KCET.ORG
LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT
4401 SUNSET BLVD.
LOS ANGELES, CA 90027
(323) 953-5555

JESS>> LIFE STILL GOES ON AND IT MUST IN THE WAKE OF LAST WEEK'S TERRORIST ATTACKS AND SOME SEGMENTS OF LIFE, THANKFULLY, CONTINUE ALONG UNCHANGED.

VAL>> SEVERAL LOCAL FILMMAKERS RECENTLY DOCUMENTED LIFE IN THEIR COMMUNITY, THE COMMUNITY OF SILVER LAKE, AND THEIR EFFORTS ARE COLLECTED IN THE PROJECT KNOWN AS "VERITAS, VOLUME ONE". TONIGHT WE BRING YOU EXCERPTS FROM ONE FILM, THE STORY OF A PERSON KNOWN UNTIL NOW ONLY AS THE WALKING MAN.

>> EVERY TIME I'VE SEEN HIM, HE'S ALWAYS MOVING.

>> HE LOOKS LIKE A MAN ON A MISSION.

>> GONE LIKE THE WIND.

>> HE WALKED PAST HERE NOT FIVE MINUTES AGO.

>> AND HE'S THE ONLY ONE WALKING. NOBODY WALKS HERE.

>> OH, YES. HE WALKS DAY AND NIGHT EARLY IN THE MORNING AND LATE.

>> I HAVE SEEN THE WALKING MAN, GOLLY, FOR PROBABLY THE PAST FIFTEEN YEARS OR MORE.

>> HE'S RIGHT THERE.

>> YOU'VE NEVER SEEN HIM?

>> OH, FANTASTIC SHORTS. ALWAYS THE SHORTS AND LIKE A SNEAKER AND THAT'S IT.

>> AND NO SHIRT?

>> AND NO SHIRT, NO HAT, NOTHING.

>> NO PROTECTION?

>> NOTHING. VERY TANNED.

>> OH, THE WALKING MAN? I SEE HIM PASS HERE SOMETIMES TWICE A DAY USUALLY, WALKING VERY FAST, SOMETIMES READING A BOOK WHILE HE WALKS. HE DEFINITELY WALKS FAST.

>> HE'S KIND OF A LITTLE GUY AND HE DOESN'T HAVE SO MUCH HAIR, BUT NOT BALD EITHER.

>> I WOULDN'T SAY HE'S HANDSOME. HE'S PASSABLE.

>> I'D SEE THE WALKING MAN COMING UP FROM AROUND GRIFFITH PARK.

>> AROUND GRIFFITH PARK, YEAH.

>> UP HYPERION AND IN FRONT OF TRADER JOE'S.

>> ON THE WAY TO TRADER JOE'S?

>> AROUND A QUARTER TIL TWO EVERY WEEK.

>> I SEE HIM THERE ALL THE TIME.

>> HE READS REAL CLOSE UP.

>> I MEAN, IT'S ALWAYS THE NEWSPAPER.

>> IT'S ALWAYS THE NEWSPAPER.

>> AND HE WALKS ALONG REAL FAST.

>> HE MUST READ EVERY PAPER OUT THERE.

>> EVERY ONE, YEAH. HE'S ALWAYS WALKING AND HAS THE PAPER NICELY FOLDED.

>> YEAH.

>> THERE'S BEEN A COUPLE OF TIMES WHERE I THOUGHT, JUST LOOKING UP, I JUST THOUGHT THE PAPER WAS UPSIDE DOWN.

>> IN THE HALF-FOLD, YOU KNOW, JUST LIKE YOU'RE SITTING ON THE TRAIN.

>> HE'S GOT GREAT FORM.

>> SOMETIMES IT'S LIKE THIS, THOUGH. I'VE SEEN HIM WALKING LIKE THIS.

>> I'VE NEVER SEEN HIM WALK LIKE THAT.

>> NEVER SEEN HIM FALL DOWN.

>> YOU'VE NEVER SEEN HIM FALL DOWN?

>> LIKE, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU'RE WALKING, SOMETIMES YOU DON'T SEE THE CURB OR THERE'S A BUMP OR SOMETHING, YOU COULD FALL DOWN.

>> HOW DOES THIS GUY NOT GET RID OVER?

>> HE MUST HAVE THE SILVER LAKE ANGEL PROTECTING HIM.

>> I'VE NEVER EVEN SEEN HIM STANDING AT THE CURB WAITING TO CROSS THE STREET. HE'S ALWAYS MOVING. EVERY TIME I'VE SEEN HIM, HE'S ALWAYS MOVING.

>> YEAH, I NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT THAT BEFORE.

>> I'M JERRY [HEINMAN]. I'M A CHIROPRACTOR AND HAVE A SPECIALTY IN MOVEMENT THERAPIES. THERE HAVE BEEN TIMES EARLY ON IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND GOING ON THE STREET I'VE SAID HELLO, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO BE NEIGHBORLY AND SOCIAL. HE'S NEVER REALLY OPENED UP ANY AVENUE FOR DISCUSSION. I TOOK THE HINT AND STOPPED DOING IT. I DIDN'T WANT TO DISTURB HIM.

WHEN WE SEE PEOPLE WALKING, WE CAN SEE THAT IT MIGHT NOT BE A BEAUTIFUL PERSON, BUT THERE'S A CERTAIN WONDER, A CERTAIN GRACE, ABOUT THE WAY THAT THEY MOVE. IT'S SO PLEASING THAT YOU JUST WANT TO CONTINUE TO WATCH THEM. THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE THAT MOVE LIKE KITCHEN APPLIANCES. WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE BETWEEN SOMETHING THAT'S INTERESTING AND AMUSING AND SOMETHING THAT'S PATHOLOGICAL?

>> YOU KNOW, THE IDEA OF HIS WALKING BY ALL THE TIME IS SO GREAT THAT I KIND OF DON'T WANT TO KNOW TOO MUCH ABOUT HIM REALLY.

>> I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE DOES. I DON'T KNOW HIS NAME. I FEEL SO BADLY REFERRING TO HIM AS THE WALKING MAN.

>> HE HAS AN ILLNESS, I GUESS, OF SOMETHING TO WHERE HE HAS TO KEEP MOVING.

>> I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW WHAT THE WALKING MAN DOES FOR A LIVING.

>> OH, YES, HE'S A DOCTOR.

>> I HAD HEARD THAT HE WAS GIVEN TENNIS SHOES BY A KNOWN COMPANY, MAYBE ADIDAS.

>> HE WALKS FOR HIS HEALTH.

>> MAYBE ONE OF HIS PATIENTS, I MEAN, IF HE EVEN IS A DOCTOR, ONE OF HIS PATIENTS COULD HAVE DIED OR ONE OF HIS CHILDREN. I MEAN, WHAT MAKES A MAN WALK LIKE THAT?

>> I HAD SOME RASH AND I ASKED HIM HOW TO GET RID OF IT AND HE TOLD ME HOW AND IT WORKED.

>> HE'S LIKE A GOOD LUCK CHARM, KIND OF. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? HE'S LIKE CONFUCIUS' LITTLE GRASSHOPPER. YOU KNOW YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A GOOD DAY WHEN YOU SEE HIM.

>> THIS FRIEND OF MINE TOLD ME THAT HE TOLD HER THAT HE WALKS FIFTEEN MILES A DAY DURING THE WEEK AND 25 MILES A DAY ON THE WEEKENDS. I WONDER WHAT HE DOES FOR AN ENCORE?

[FILM CLIP]

VAL>> THAT CHARMING FILM WAS DIRECTED BY LAURIE [MALCASIAN], AND THE GUIDING LIGHT BEHIND "VERITAS" IS FILMMAKER, RAY GREEN.

JESS>> AND THE DOCTOR PRACTICES WHAT HE PREACHES. EXERCISE, EXERCISE, BUT ONLY THREE HOURS OF SLEEP A NIGHT?

VAL>> UNBELIEVABLE. HE'S WALKED TO THE MOON --

JESS>> -- IN ADDITION TO READING A PAPER, HE'S PROBABLY WALKING IN HIS SLEEP TOO.

VAL>> THAT'S RIGHT. I'LL TELL YOU ONE GOOD THING. HE COMPLETELY UNDOES THE IMAGE OF L.A. AS NOT PEDESTRIAN-FRIENDLY.

JESS>> THAT'S TRUE. BY THE WAY, THE NINE SHORT FILMS THAT MAKE UP THE "VERITAS" PROJECT WILL BE SCREENED NEXT SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 22, AT THE FRIENDSHIP HALL VIDEO THEATER. YOU CAN CALL THE NUMBER ON YOUR SCREEN FOR MORE INFORMATION.

[323-993-7225]

VAL>> TIME FOR US TO STEP OFF THIS STAGE. FOR ALL OF US HERE AT LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT, HAVE A WONDERFUL EVENING. DON'T FORGET TO GO TO OUR WEBSITE, WWW.KCET.ORG.

JESS>> KEEP ON WALKING.

VAL>> KEEP ON WALKING. THANKS.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE JAMES IRVINE FOUNDATION
WHICH IS DEDICATED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF AN INFORMED CALIFORNIA CITIZENRY.

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA COMMUNITY FOUNDATION
UNDERWRITING THE SPANISH LANGUAGE TRANSLATION OF LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

TO REACH US AT LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT, CALL 323-953-5555. SEND US AN E-MAIL TO LIFEANDTIMES@KCET.ORG OR LOG ONTO OUR WEBSITE AT WWW.KCET.ORG TO SEND MESSAGES OR DOWNLOAD TRANSCRIPTS OF TONIGHT'S PROGRAM.