9/14/01

LC010914

VAL>> ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT --

JESS>> AMERICA IS IN SEARCH OF JUSTICE, BUT AUTHORITIES ARE CONCERNED THAT THIS WEEK'S TERRORIST ATTACKS MIGHT PROVOKE SOME PEOPLE TO TAKE THE LAW INTO THEIR OWN HANDS. TONIGHT WE'LL LOOK AT EFFORTS TO HEAD OFF HATE CRIMES IN THE WAKE OF AMERICA'S DARKEST DAY. AND WE'LL TALK WITH SHERIFF LEE BACA ABOUT THE SPECIAL EFFORT THAT'S UNDERWAY IN L.A. COUNTY.

VAL>> THE TERRORIST CRISIS HAS TURNED THE POLITICAL LANDSCAPE UPSIDE DOWN. BUT FOR ONE YOUNG CITY COUNCILMAN, THAT'S NOT ALL BAD. TONIGHT MADDOX & HEWITT LOOK AT L.A.'S ACTING MAYOR AND HOW HIS STAR HAS RISEN TO NEW HEIGHTS THIS WEEK.

JESS>> THEY'RE IN THE BUSINESS OF CREATING MAKE-BELIEVE DISASTERS, BUT NOW SOME HOLLYWOOD PRODUCERS ARE HAVING SECOND THOUGHTS.

[FILM CLIP]

JESS>> TONIGHT WE'LL LOOK AT HOW THE ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY IS PUTTING SOME NEW PROJECTS ON HOLD UNTIL THE NATION'S HAD MORE TIME TO HEAL.

VAL>> THESE STORIES COMING UP NEXT ON LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING FOUNDATIONS:

THE JAMES IRVINE FOUNDATION
WHICH IS DEDICATED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF AN INFORMED CALIFORNIA CITIZENRY.

THE L.K. WHITTIER FOUNDATION
DEDICATED TO IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE BY SUPPORTING INNOVATIVE ENDEAVORS IN THE FIELDS OF MEDICINE, HEALTH, SCIENCE AND EDUCATION.

AND THE CALIFORNIA COMMUNITY FOUNDATION
UNDERWRITING THE SPANISH LANGUAGE TRANSLATION OF LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT.

VAL>> GOOD EVENING, I'M VAL ZAVALA.

JESS>> AND I'M JESS MARLOW.

IT DOESN'T TAKE A NATIONAL CRISIS TO PROVOKE A HATE CRIME, BUT FOR SOME, IT'S A HANDY EXCUSE TO TARGET INNOCENT PEOPLE.

VAL>> THOSE HORRIBLE PICTURES FROM BACK EAST CAN TRIGGER ALL KINDS OF HUMAN EMOTIONS AND THAT'S ONE OF THE BIG CONCERNS FOR LOCAL AUTHORITIES. WILL THIS WEEK'S TERRORIST ATTACK STIR UP A NEW ROUND OF RACIALLY-MOTIVATED CRIMES AND WILL ARAB-AMERICANS BE THE TARGETS?

JESS>> TONIGHT OUR GUEST IS LOS ANGELES COUNTY SHERIFF, LEE BACA. HE'S WELL ACQUAINTED WITH THE CONDITIONS THAT CAN SPARK HATE CRIMES. AND OUR TWO FRIDAY REGULARS ARE ALSO HERE, HUGH HEWITT AND KERMAN MADDOX. WELCOME, SHERIFF BACA. THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

TO WHAT EXTENT HAS THIS SITUATION ALREADY PRODUCED HATE CRIMES IN LOS ANGELES COUNTY?

LEE BACA>> SIGNIFICANTLY, WE HAVEN'T HAD SERIOUS HATE CRIMES OCCUR. HOWEVER, WE'VE HAD THREATS AND WE'VE HAD REMARKS. FOR EXAMPLE, THE MUSLIM-AMERICAN COMMUNITY IS VERY AFRAID THAT THEY WILL BE TARGETED AS AN INSTRUMENT OF REVENGE.

VAL>> AND HOW HAS THAT COME OUT? HOW HAVE YOU SEEN THAT?

LEE BACA>> WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS THAT I CONVENED A GROUP OF MUSLIM LEADERS AND JEWISH-AMERICAN LEADERS YESTERDAY AFTERNOON. IN THAT REGARD, WE WERE ABLE TO IDENTIFY SOME SPECIFICS. FOR EXAMPLE, OUR 7-11 STORES ARE LARGELY OWNED AND MANAGED BY MUSLIM-AMERICANS AND PEOPLE ARE GOING INSIDE STORES AND MAKING COMMENTS TO MUSLIM-AMERICANS THAT "I SUPPOSE YOU'RE HAPPY NOW WITH WHAT OCCURRED."

THE THING THAT THAT EVOKES IN THEM IS THE MESSAGE AS FOLLOWS. AT THE DISASTER IN NEW YORK, WE HAVE TO REMIND AMERICANS THAT IN THOSE BUILDINGS WERE BLACKS, WHITES, ASIANS, LATINOS, CHRISTIANS, JEWS AND MUSLIM-AMERICANS, AND THAT THOSE WHO ARE RESCUING THE PEOPLE ARE ALSO OF THOSE VARIOUS BACKGROUNDS. THIS IS THE MESSAGE THAT HAS TO GO OUT AND, THEREIN, ALL MUSLIMS ARE IN MOURNING WITHIN THE UNITED STATES AND WE HAVE TO RESPECT THE FACT THAT THEY ARE AMERICANS TOO.

VAL>> IT'S ALSO INTERESTING TO REMIND PEOPLE THAT MUSLIM AND ARAB ARE OFTEN DIFFERENT IN THAT THE MAJORITY -- I READ THIS RECENTLY. I WAS SURPRISED TO LEARN THIS -- THE MAJORITY OF ARAB IN THE UNITED STATES ARE CATHOLICS AND ORTHODOX. THEY'RE NOT EVEN MUSLIMS. SO ARABS -- I MEAN, THERE'S A GREAT IGNORANCE ON THE PART OF --

LEE BACA>> -- WELL, MOST ARABS ARE NOT MUSLIMS. I THINK THAT'S THE KEY HERE.

VAL>> WELL, MOST ARABS IN THE UNITED STATES ARE CATHOLICS OR ORTHODOX. CATHOLICS, EXACTLY, THEY'RE NOT MUSLIMS.

HUGH>> SHERIFF BACA, THERE'S BEEN THIS EXTRAORDINARILY HIGH LEVEL OF ALERT FOR ALL LAW ENFORCEMENT ALL WEEK LONG. OBVIOUSLY IT CONTINUES THROUGH THE DAY. WHAT IS THE SITUATION IN TERMS OF RESOURCES, BOTH FOR HATE CRIMES AND ALSO JUST GENERAL FEAR OF TERRORISM? IS THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT STILL ON HIGH TACTICAL ALERT?

LEE BACA>> YES, WE HAVE AN EARLY WARNING TERRORISM GROUP AND THAT'S MADE UP OF LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT, STATE LAW ENFORCEMENT AND FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT BECAUSE TERRORIST ACTS ARE FEDERAL CRIMES, SO THERE HAS TO BE A COORDINATED LAW ENFORCEMENT STRATEGY. WE ARE ON THE ALERT AND WE WILL REMAIN ON THE ALERT FROM NOW UNTIL INDEFINITE.

HUGH>> HAVE YOU BEEN PROVIDED A LIST OF SUSPECTS THAT THE FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION IS LOOKING FOR TO ASSIST IN?

LEE BACA>> THE FEDERAL BUREAU HAS INDIVIDUALS THAT THEY'RE INVESTIGATING. AND I WANT TO COMMEND THE FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION FOR WHAT THEY'VE ACCOMPLISHED IN SUCH A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. I THINK THE AMERICAN PUBLIC SHOULD BE PROUD OF THE FACT THAT THE PERPETRATORS IN MAINE HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED. BUT IN CONTEXT TO YOUR QUESTION, WE ARE PREPARED TO SHARE INFORMATION ON A CONFIDENTIAL BASIS BECAUSE NO ONE OF ANY PARTICULAR GROUP WANTS TO BE ON AN INTELLIGENCE FILE AND NOT TRULY BE AN INTELLIGENCE SUBJECT THAT IS A THREAT.

JESS>> TO FOLLOW ON HUGH'S QUESTION, THERE WAS A HATE CRIME REGISTRATION ACT INTRODUCED IN THE ASSEMBLY I THINK A YEAR OR SO AGO. DO WE HAVE A REGISTRY OF THOSE WHO'VE BEEN CONVICTED OF HATE CRIMES?

LEE BACA>> YES. WE HAVE IN EACH VARIOUS LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY THROUGHOUT THE STATE INFORMATION AS TO THOSE WHO HAVE COMMITTED HATE CRIMES AND HAVE BEEN PROSECUTED AND CONVICTED THEREOF. THIS IS AN IMPORTANT FILE TO MAINTAIN BECAUSE INDIVIDUALS OF THIS TYPE CAN COMMIT THESE OFFENSES AGAIN.

KERMAN>> NOW YOU TALKED ABOUT CALLS ABOUT PEOPLE GOING IN AND MAKING COMMENTS AT 7-11 STORES. HAVE YOU RECEIVED ANY INCIDENTS OF VIOLENCE AGAINST MOSQUES OR VIOLENCE AGAINST PEOPLE OF ARABIC DESCENT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? HAS THAT HAPPENED YET?

LEE BACA>> NO. I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S BEEN SOME JUVENILE ACTIVITY WHERE SOMEONE GETS PUSHED AND THEREIN IS AN ASSAULT, BUT NOTHING SERIOUS AS OF THIS POINT.

KERMAN>> I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT CIVIL LIBERTIES. EVERYBODY SEEMS TO SUGGEST THAT, BASED ON WHAT HAPPENED THE OTHER DAY, AMERICANS HAVE TO CHANGE THE WAY THEY CONDUCT THEMSELVES AND OUR LIVES ARE GOING TO BE CHANGED FOREVER. SOME PEOPLE ARE SUGGESTING WE SHOULD FOREGO LIBERTIES AND FREEDOM FOR THE OVERALL PROTECTION OF EVERYBODY. DO YOU THINK IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GIVE UP LIBERTIES AND RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS FOR EVERYBODY'S OVERALL PROTECTION?

LEE BACA>> I WOULD HOPE NOT. I THINK THAT THE STRATEGIES NOW THAT WE, MEANING THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT, THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND THE FEDERAL AGENCIES, ALONG WITH THE STATE, IS TO FIND BETTER WAYS OF SECURING OUR PUBLIC AND OUR ABILITY TO MOVE ABOUT FREELY AND TO HAVE THE PROTECTIONS THAT OUR CONSTITUTION GUARANTEES.

KERMAN>> NO CHANGES? NO MAJOR CHANGES, THOUGH?

LEE BACA>> I DON'T ENVISION MAJOR CHANGES. I THINK THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, IN AIRPORTS, THERE ARE ENHANCED SECURITY MEASURES THAT ARE PLANNED FOR. WE DON'T HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS TO WHAT THE FUTURE NEEDS WILL BE, BUT WE'RE LEARNING A LOT QUICKLY BECAUSE OF THIS UNIMAGINABLE HORRIBLE CRIME. BUT I THINK THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT NEEDS TO RE-LOOK ITS STRATEGIES AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT -- I'VE SPOKEN TO JANE HARMON ABOUT THIS -- NEEDS TO GET INVOLVED IN MORE TERRORISM DEFENSE STRATEGIES.

VAL>> SHERIFF BACA, I HAVE A PARTICULAR QUESTION. WE'RE NOW IN THE WORLD OF THE INTERNET. E-MAIL IS FLYING ALL OVER THE PLACE. IF, FOR EXAMPLE, THE ISLAMIC CENTER GETS HATE E-MAIL OR IF ANY PERSON OUT THERE GETS HATE E-MAIL AIMED AT A PARTICULAR GROUP, WHAT SHOULD THEY DO? IS THAT A CRIME? HOW WOULD YOU HANDLE THAT?

LEE BACA>> WELL, YES. WE HAVE A HATE CRIMES TASKFORCE. ALL THE PERSON NEEDS TO DO IS CALL EITHER THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT OR THE LOS ANGELES COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT OR ANY OTHER LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY, BECAUSE WE'RE ALL NOW NETWORKED IN THE INFORMATION SHARING, AND REPORT THAT PARTICULAR CRIME OR AT LEAST REPORT THE FACT THAT E-MAILS ARE BEING RECEIVED.

VAL>> IS IT A CRIME TO SEND HATE E-MAILS?

LEE BACA>> WELL, NO, IT IS NOT A CRIME TO SAY HATEFUL THINGS ABOUT PEOPLE. THIS IS A FIRST AMENDMENT ISSUE AND IT'S BEEN SOMEWHAT GUARANTEED. E-MAILS ARE NOW THE MAJOR VEHICLE OF COMMUNICATION FOR HATE MESSAGES, BUT WE STILL WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THEM AND WE WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING THIS.

HUGH>> SHERIFF BACA, I'D LIKE TO SWITCH JUST A LITTLE BIT TO THE POLICE COMMUNITY, TO THE LAW ENFORCEMENT COMMUNITY, TO THE FIREFIGHTING COMMUNITY. WHEN ANY OFFICER OR FIREFIGHTER LOSES THEIR LIFE, IT IS ALWAYS MOURNED THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY. I SEE YOU'RE WEARING THE BLACK STRIPE. WHAT'S THE EFFECT IN YOUR DEPARTMENT OF THE DEVASTATION IN NEW YORK? ITS MULTIPLE NUMBERS OF POLICE OFFICERS, SHERIFF'S DEPUTIES AND FIREFIGHTERS ARE IN THE HUNDREDS.

LEE BACA>> IT'S LIKE LOSING MEMBERS OF A FAMILY. TOMORROW THERE WILL BE A CANDLELIGHT VIGIL, A SYMBOLIC VIGIL, AT TWELVE NOON IN FRONT OF THE HALL OF ADMINISTRATION WHERE THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS CONDUCT THEIR BUSINESS. WE'LL ALL BE OUT THERE. THIS HAS BEEN A NATIONAL AWAKENING FOR ALL OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND FIRE SERVICES. WE'RE HAPPY THAT FIVE WERE RESCUED TODAY. BUT IT'S LIKE LOSING A GREAT NUMBER OF A FAMILY OF PEOPLE WHO ARE ALL TIED TOGETHER FOR A COMMON PURPOSE.

HUGH>> DO YOU HAVE TO LOOK FOR ANGER, THEN, IN YOUR OWN RANKS TO GUARD AGAINST HARSH TREATMENT OF SUSPECTS AND OTHERS WHO MIGHT BE INVOLVED IN CRIME DURING THE AFTERMATH?

JESS>> ON THE ISSUE OF RACIAL PROFILING, ARAB-AMERICANS AND PARTICULARLY MUSLIMS?

LEE BACA>> WELL, I THINK WE ALWAYS -- WHENEVER THERE IS POWER IN THE HANDS OF SO FEW, AND THAT'S LAW ENFORCEMENT, WE ALWAYS HAVE TO REMIND OURSELVES TO MAINTAIN OUR COOL, TO LOOK OBJECTIVELY AT FACTS, TO NOT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS. AND I THINK THE FACT THAT WE COLLECT RACIAL PROFILING DATA REINFORCES OUR INTEREST IN BEING EVENHANDED.

KERMAN>> BUT ON JESS'S POINT, WHAT DO YOU TELL YOUR OFFICERS TO DO? OBVIOUSLY, THERE'S A LOT OF ANGER OUT THERE. A LOT OF PEOPLE WANT TO RETALIATE. THERE ARE ARAB-AMERICANS WHO HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. WHAT DO YOU TELL YOUR OFFICERS SO THAT THEY DON'T ENGAGE IN THAT KIND OF ACTIVITY?

LEE BACA>> WELL, THEY KNOW FROM THE GATE THAT THE VALUES OF OUR ORGANIZATION, OUR CORE VALUES -- FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT, WE STAND AGAINST RACISM, SEXISM, HOMOPHOBIA, ANTI-SEMITISM AND BIGOTRY IN ALL ITS FORMS. THIS IS THE ISSUE OF CURBING BIGOT BEHAVIOR. ALL OF US, WITH THE CHECKS AND BALANCES, WITH COLLECTING DATA, AND THEN OUR MANAGERS BEING PART OF WHAT WE CALL LEADERSHIP CULTURE, WE BELIEVE THAT THE MESSAGE IS CONSTANT, LOUD AND CLEAR. IT DOESN'T TAKE A DISASTER OF THIS TYPE TO KEEP US IN LINE AND IT DOESN'T TAKE A DISASTER OF THIS TYPE TO REMIND US THAT WE CAN'T ENGAGE IN THIS BEHAVIOR.

JESS>> DO YOU HAVE ANY MUSLIM DEPUTIES?

LEE BACA>> OH, INDEED. I HAVE MANY MUSLIM DEPUTIES AND WE'RE GETTING MORE ON THE FORCE. AND THERE'S MANY MUSLIM POLICE OFFICERS HERE IN LOS ANGELES AND IN NEW YORK, AND THAT'S PART OF THE AMERICAN FABRIC.

VAL>> SHERIFF LEE BACA, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING IN AND SHARING THAT INFORMATION WITH US. WE'LL LOOK FORWARD, I HOPE, TO REPORTS THAT WILL COME OUT AND REPORT ON HATE CRIMES AS THEY ARE RELEASED TO THE PUBLIC.

LEE BACA>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME. ONE MORE WONDERFUL THOUGHT ABOUT THE PEOPLE IN NEW YORK. WE'RE THERE WITH THEM.

KERMAN>> GOOD LUCK ON YOUR RE-ELECTION.

HUGH>> THANKS, SHERIFF.

VAL>> THANKS SO MUCH. WELL, COMING UP NEXT, WE WILL TALK MORE WITH HUGH AND KERMAN ABOUT THIS INCREDIBLE WEEK.

JESS>> HARD TO BELIEVE, BUT A WEEK AGO, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE ENERGY CRISIS, WORRYING ABOUT THE DISAPPEARING BUDGET SURPLUS AND WHETHER MORE MEXICAN WORKERS SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO STAY IN AMERICA. NOW IN THE WAKE OF THIS WEEK'S TRAGEDY, NONE OF THAT SEEMS TO MATTER VERY MUCH. TONIGHT HUGH AND KERMAN ARE HERE TO TALK ABOUT HOW AMERICA HAS CHANGED, MAYBE FOREVER. WHAT ABOUT IT, HUGH?

VAL>> GENTLEMEN, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

HUGH>> DEFINITELY FOREVER AND DEFINITELY CHANGED. TODAY I SPENT -- IT'S THE NATIONAL DAY OF PRAYER, SO I SPENT IT TALKING TO PASTORS ABOUT THEIR MEMORIAL SERVICES AT NOON AND THROUGHOUT. THE GRIEF IS OVERWHELMING. I THINK IT'S GOING TO BUILD. AND BEHIND THAT GRIEF AND EVERY NEW STORY -- ANTHONY LEWIS, A NEW YORK TIMES COLUMNIST, NOT MY KIND OF COLUMNIST, BEGAN WITH A STORY OF A FATHER TRAPPED IN THE BURNING FLOORS OF THE TOWERS CALLING HIS WIFE AND SAYING GOODBYE TO HIS DAUGHTERS. THAT'S ONE OF THOUSANDS OF SIMILAR STORIES. I HAVE SENSED ON THE RADIO, I HAVE SENSED AMONG OUR COLLEAGUES IN THE BUSINESS OF JOURNALISM, JUST ENORMOUS GRIEF, BUT A HUGE RESERVOIR OF ANGER.

KERMAN>> WHAT I'VE NOTICED IS THIS UNBELIEVABLE PATRIOTIC UNIFYING FORCE. I TEACH, AS MOST PEOPLE KNOW, AT A COMMUNITY COLLEGE IN SOUTH LOS ANGELES. MANY OF MY STUDENTS ARE LATINOS AND AFRICAN-AMERICANS. IN MANY CASES, THEY COME FROM LOW-INCOME, IMPOVERISHED COMMUNITIES. OFTENTIMES, THEY ARE NOT VERY PATRIOTIC FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS. THEY FEEL LIKE THEY MAYBE HAVE NOT BEEN GIVEN --

JESS>> -- IT'S NOT COOL.

KERMAN>> YEAH, IT'S NOT COOL AND A LOT OF HAVE STORIES --

VAL>> -- WELL, THEY FEEL LEFT OUT.

KERMAN>> THEY FEEL LEFT OUT. BUT I GOT TO TELL YOU, ON THIS ISSUE, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT BECAUSE IT'S THE ONLY THING PEOPLE WANT TO TALK ABOUT, EVERYBODY IS UNITED. EVERYBODY WANTS THE PRESIDENT AND THE ADMINISTRATION TO DO SOMETHING. EVERYBODY IS AN AMERICAN NOW. ALL THE DIFFERENCES THAT PEOPLE HAD ARE OVER AND EVERYBODY WANTS TO GET INVOLVED. I HAVE HAD KIDS SAY, YOU KNOW, IF THERE IS GOING TO BE MILITARY ACTION, I'M THERE. CALL ME, TELL ME WHAT I NEED TO DO.

VAL>> WHAT A CHANGE.

KERMAN>> I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING LIKE THIS DURING THE PERSIAN GULF SITUATION IN 1991. I THINK THE DIFFERENCE IS, THIS HAPPENED ON OUR SOIL AGAINST US AND EVERYBODY FEELS LIKE THEY WERE SOMEHOW HURT IN SOME WAY.

VAL>> WELL, SEE, THIS IS WHAT I'D LIKE TO PICK UP ON. WE ALL FEEL MORE PATRIOTIC, BUT THERE'S A FINE LINE BETWEEN PATRIOTISM AND, WHAT, --

JESS>> -- XENOPHOBIA.

VAL>> YES. HUGH, YOU TALK TO PEOPLE ALL THE TIME ON YOUR RADIO SHOW IN THE MORNING, KRLA. YOU HEAR CALL-INS. HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THOSE PEOPLE WHO CALL IN FULL OF HATE AND FULL OF --

HUGH>> -- WE DON'T ALLOW HATERS ON, BUT WE DO ALLOW PEOPLE TO EXPRESS VERY VIGOROUS OPINIONS BECAUSE IT'S ACROSS THE COUNTRY. IT'S SYNDICATED. IT'S ON 870 HERE. BUT ONE PERSON JUST WANTED TO WAKE UP TO "COBBLE AND RUBBLE". THAT'S A PHRASE THAT STUCK OUT. HE WANTED AFGHANISTAN'S CAPITOL REDUCED TO RUBBLE BECAUSE, OF COURSE, IT HAS BEEN THE HARBOR, A WORD THAT WE WILL HEAR A LOT OF. I THINK YOU PROBABLY HEARD THE PRESIDENT SAY IT. REDUCED TO RUBBLE.

THE INTERESTING THING IS, IF YOU TURN OFF THE CAMERAS AND YOU TALK TO THE JOURNALISTS, THEY'RE JUST LIKE THE TALK RADIO SHOW CALLERS. EVERYONE IS EXPECTING A MASSIVE AND SUPPORTING A MASSIVE RETALIATION AGAINST THE HARBORING STATES. OR HAVE YOU TWO NOT HEARD THAT IN YOUR --

KERMAN>> -- OH, I'VE HEARD THAT QUITE A BIT. IN ADDITION TO THAT, I'VE HEARD PEOPLE SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT? THEY SAY, MR. MADDOX, IF IN FACT WE FIND OUT THAT AFGHANISTAN IS HARBORING BIN LADEN AND THE OTHER PEOPLE, THE QUESTION I'VE POSED TO THEM, HOW DO YOU GET HIM WITHOUT MAKING SURE THAT INNOCENT PEOPLE ARE ESCAPED, YOU LEAVE THEM ALONE? WHAT I'M GETTING FROM PEOPLE IS, MR. MADDOX, THAT'S THE CASUALTY OF WAR. IF THERE ARE INNOCENT PEOPLE WHO ARE HARMED OR KILLED, THAT'S A CASUALTY OF WAR AND WE JUST GOT TO DEAL WITH THAT.

JESS>> JUST COLLATERAL DAMAGE?

KERMAN>> WELL, THE ARGUMENT THEY MAKE IS INNOCENT PEOPLE WERE KILLED OVER HERE AND THEREFORE INNOCENT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE THE VICTIMS.

VAL>> BUT, SEE, THAT'S WHAT THE ARABS AND SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SAYING FOR SO LONG, THAT AMERICAN POLICY HAS CAUSED SO MANY INNOCENT LIVES TO BE LOST. HOW IRONIC THAT WE'RE NOW SAYING THE SAME WORDS THAT THESE PEOPLE HAVE SAID.

KERMAN>> WE'RE JUST SHARING WITH YOU WHAT THE MOOD IS.

HUGH>> THERE'S A PATIENCE WITH THAT ARGUMENT THAT ENDED ON THE 11TH OF SEPTEMBER. THAT ARGUMENT, I THINK, IS NOW NOT ACCEPTABLE.

VAL>> I THINK IT'S AN ARGUMENT THAT AMERICANS NEVER REALLY HEARD. IT WAS SAID AT US, BUT IT DIDN'T --

KERMAN>> -- BUT I THINK, BASED ON WHAT HAPPENED TUESDAY, I THINK EVERYBODY HAS CHANGED THEIR ENTIRE OUTLOOK ABOUT HOW PATRIOTIC THEY ARE, WHEN WE SHOULD RESPOND, HOW WE SHOULD RESPOND AND THE ROLE PEOPLE WANT TO PLAY. PEOPLE SEEM TO BE VERY, VERY -- I DON'T SEE ANYONE WITH MUCH SYMPATHY FOR THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE.

VAL>> DO YOUR STUDENTS UNDERSTAND THAT, IF WE WERE SUCCESSFUL IN GOING INTO AFGHANISTAN AND IF WE WERE SUCCESSFUL IN ELIMINATING OSAMA BIN LADEN, THAT THE TERRORIST CELLS WOULD STILL BE ABLE TO FUNCTION? THAT THEY'RE INDEPENDENT --

HUGH>> -- WELL, THERE ARE A LOT OF SECURITY EXPERTS THAT DON'T AGREE WITH THAT. THERE ARE A LOT OF SECURITY EXPERTS WHO BELIEVE QUITE FIRMLY THAT OSAMA BIN LADEN IS OPERATING WITH IRAQI AND THE STATE-SPONSORED TERRORISM NEEDS TO BE ROOTED OUT AND THAT THE TERRORISM OF THE 70'S AND THE 80'S HAVE THE SOVIETS AS THE SPONSOR. THE NEW SPONSOR IS IN IRAQ AND OSAMA BIN LADEN. BUT ABSENT THAT, THAT WOULD FALL APART. SO THERE'S A COUNTER-ARGUMENT THERE. I'LL SAY THIS, THOUGH. THE STRANGEST THING OF THE WEEK. DAVID DREIER'S BEEN CALLING IN EVERY DAY --

VAL>> -- CONGRESSMAN DAVID DREIER.

HUGH>> THERE IS AN UNPRECEDENTED LEVEL OF COOPERATION AMONG DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS IN MOVING THINGS THROUGH RAPIDLY. IN MY LIFE OF WATCHING POLITICS, THERE HAS NEVER -- YOU KNOW, THE GULF WAR RESOLUTION WAS A 51-49 CLOSE TO VOTE. NOT THIS TIME. IT WILL BE UNANIMOUS, I THINK, WHEN IT COMES TO THE --

KERMAN>> -- ALEX PADILLA. WE HAVE TO SAY SOMETHING --

VAL>> -- YES, WE DO.

KERMAN>> CITY COUNCIL, ACTING MAYOR ALEX PADILLA, PRESIDENT OF THE CITY COUNCIL, I THINK HAS DONE A MARVELOUS JOB. WHEN HE WAS FIRST ELECTED, HE STUMBLED WITH THE APPOINTMENTS OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS. HE STUMBLED WITH PROBLEMS IN THE SAN FERNANDO. BUT I THINK, THIS PAST WEEK, HE HAS BEEN THE ONE WHO HAS BEEN THE GLUE THAT'S HELD THE CITY TOGETHER. I THINK HE'S DONE A PHENOMENAL JOB.

HUGH>> WELL, JIMMY HAHN CALLED IN ON WEDNESDAY NIGHT -- I MEAN, ZEV YAROSLAVSKY CALLED IN ON WEDNESDAY NIGHT. HE'S STUCK WITH MAYOR HAHN IN WASHINGTON, D.C. AT A TIME WHEN THEY NEED TO MOBILIZE THE CITY. EVERYTHING IS GOING THROUGH PADILLA AND SO HE'S DOING ALL THE STAND-UPS, ALL THE ORGANIZATIONS ALONG WITH SHERIFF BACA, AND YOUR FRIEND, CHIEF PARKS, HAS BEEN OUT FRONT A LOT TOO. VERY REASSURING VOICE IN THE COMMUNITY AS WELL. BUT IT'S GOT TO BE EATING AT THE PRINCIPAL PARTICIPANTS IN LOS ANGELES POLITICS TO BE AWAY FROM THEIR CITY AT A TIME OF NATIONAL CRISIS.

JESS>> PADILLA WAS GRACIOUS ENOUGH TO SAY THAT EVERY DECISION HE'D MADE HE'D SHARED WITH THE MAYOR, THAT THEY WERE DOING THIS JOINTLY, AND HE WAS REALLY VERY GRACIOUS ABOUT IT, WASN'T HE?

KERMAN>> HE'S DONE A PHENOMENAL JOB, I THINK.

VAL>> I'LL TELL YOU WHAT ELSE WAS VERY IMPRESSIVE WAS WHEN HE CAN GO SO BEAUTIFULLY FROM ENGLISH TO SPANISH, AND I HOPE IT HELPS UNITE PEOPLE AND FEEL --

HUGH>> YOU KNOW WHO ELSE IS BACK THERE IS CARDINAL ROGER MAHONY. I'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET HIM TO DO RADIO. HE IS ALSO STUCK IN WASHINGTON. IT'S BEEN AN UNUSUAL PARALYSIS OF THE ABILITY TO MOVE. JESS WAS SAYING, YOU'VE SEEN A LOT YOU HAVEN'T SEEN IN YEARS. I THINK PEOPLE ARE STUCK AND THEY'RE USING REPORTERS AND ASSETS THAT ARE ON THE GROUNDS BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN'T MOVE AROUND THE COUNTRY FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THEIR LIFETIME.

VAL>> THAT'S AMAZING. HAHN IS DUE BACK, WHAT, AS SOON AS HE CAN?

KERMAN>> HE'S TRYING TO GET BACK AS SOON AS HE CAN.

HUGH>> TOMORROW, I WOULD EXPECT.

KERMAN>> YEAH. YOU HAD A WHOLE DELEGATION OF PEOPLE WHO WENT TO WASHINGTON, D.C. TO GET FUNDING AND THINGS LIKE THAT, SO THAT'S WHY THEY'RE THERE.

JESS>> AND THE AIRPORTS ARE JUST NOW BEGINNING TO OPEN. SOME FLIGHTS ARE NOW BEGINNING TO ARRIVE. I'M SURE YOU'RE RIGHT. WE'LL EXPECT HIM BACK PROBABLY TOMORROW.

VAL>> WE ASSUME.

JESS>> ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU, GENTLEMEN.

IT'S TIME NOW TO HEAR FROM OUR VIEWERS. JOE COFFMAN OF MONROVIA WATCHED OUR ONE-HOUR SPECIAL ON TUESDAY NIGHT AFTER THE TERRORIST ATTACKS. MR. COFFMAN ACCUSES PATT MORRISON OF TAKING CHEAP SHOTS AT PRESIDENT BUSH FOR HIS LACK OF VISIBILITY:

"YOU EXPECT A PRESIDENT TO ENGAGE IN NATIONAL HANDHOLDING WHILE HE PUTS NATIONAL SECURITY ON HOLD? HAD THIS BEEN CLINTON, HE WOULD HAVE BEEN OUT THERE FEELING OUR PAIN, BUT DOING NOTHING MORE."

VAL>> AND WE GOT SEVERAL LETTERS FROM VIEWERS WHO WERE GRATEFUL THAT WE INCLUDED A MUSLIM-AMERICAN PERSPECTIVE IN THIS WEEK'S COVERAGE. GLENN ANAISCOURT OF LOS ANGELES WRITES:

"THANK YOU FOR SPENDING TIME DISCUSSING THE NEED TO AVOID SCAPEGOATING. INNOCENT MUSLIMS AND OTHERS MUST BE ABLE TO FEEL FREE AND SAFE INSIDE THE UNITED STATES."

VAL>> WE'D LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU. SEND YOUR COMMENTS BY E-MAIL TO LIFEANDTIMES -- ALL ONE WORD -- LIFEANDTIMES@KCET.ORG, AND HERE ARE THE OTHER WAYS YOU CAN REACH US:

LIFEANDTIMES@KCET.ORG
WWW.KCET.ORG
LIFE AND TIMES TONIGHT
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(323) 953-5555

VAL>> WELL, THE ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY ISN'T ALWAYS KNOWN FOR ITS GOOD TASTE AND RESTRAINT, BUT IN THE WAKE OF AMERICA'S TRAGEDY, SOME HOLLYWOOD PRODUCERS ARE INDEED PULLING BACK. FOR YEARS NOW, THE MOVIES HAVE PAINTED A GRAPHIC PICTURE OF TERRORIST ATTACKS ON NEW YORK AND OTHER MAJOR CITIES, BUT NOW THAT WE'RE BOMBARDED BY PICTURES OF THE REAL THING, SOME OF THE STUDIOS THINK THE AMERICA PUBLIC HAS HAD ENOUGH, AT LEAST FOR A WHILE, AND THEY'RE SHELVING SOME UPCOMING PROJECTS THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN A BIT TOO CLOSE TO REALITY.

JESS>> WITH US NOW IS BRAD POMERANCE, WHO COVERS ENTERTAINMENT FOR KPCC PUBLIC RADIO IN PASADENA. BRAD, HAS HOLLYWOOD SUDDENLY GOTTEN SENSITIVE? YOU KNOW, IT COSTS A LOT TO SHELVE SOME OF THESE. THIS WOULD BE UNCHARACTERISTIC SENSITIVITY, WOULDN'T IT?

BRAD POMERANCE>> I THINK WHAT'S HAPPENING IS, THERE'S A LOT OF HOLLYWOOD BASHING IN WASHINGTON TO START. VIOLENCE IN THE MEDIA IS A HOT TOPIC. SENATOR LIEBERMAN IS ALL OVER HOLLYWOOD AND HAS BEEN FOR QUITE SOME TIME. SO I THINK IT'S A COMBINATION OF THEY WANT TO BE SENSITIVE AND THEY FEEL AS IF THEY'RE NOT SENSITIVE, WASHINGTON WILL ATTACK AND THEN THE WHOLE TALK OF REGULATION OF HOLLYWOOD WILL RISE UP AGAIN.

JESS>> AND AN AUDIENCE BACKLASH, TOO, WOULDN'T THERE HAVE BEEN?

BRAD POMERANCE>> I THINK SO. IT DEPENDS ON WHAT FILMS. IT'S INTERESTING THAT, IF YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE FILMS THAT ARE BEING PULLED BACK, --

VAL>> -- GIVE US A LIST.

BRAD POMERANCE>> TWO OF THEM ARE COMEDIES. YOU HAVE ONE FILM CALLED "SIDEWALKS OF NEW YORK". IT'S A COMEDY BY ED BYRNES AS THE STAR. NOW THERE'S NOTHING PARTICULARLY TRAUMATIC ABOUT THIS FILM. THERE'S NO VIOLENCE, BUT THERE ARE BEAUTIFUL SCENES OF THE NEW YORK CITY STREETS. SO THE FEAR IS, BY PARAMOUNT STUDIOS, THAT WE CAN'T SHOW THIS, IT'S SUPPOSED TO OPEN NEXT WEEK, BECAUSE IT WILL BE INSENSITIVE.

JESS>> NOT FOCUSING ON THE TWIN TOWERS, BUT JUST STREETS OF NEW YORK?

BRAD POMERANCE>> YES, STREETS OF NEW YORK, AND THEY FEEL AS IF WE SHOULDN'T BE CELEBRATING THE SIDEWALKS OF NEW YORK.

VAL>> BUT THERE ARE OTHER MOVIES THAT ARE ACTUALLY MUCH MORE GERMANE TO THE EVENTS?

BRAD POMERANCE>> THAT'S RIGHT, YES.

JESS>> AND TELEVISION TOO?

BRAD POMERANCE>> TELEVISION TOO. ON THE FILM SIDE, "COLLATERAL DAMAGE". THE TITLE SAYS IT ALL, WITH ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER. THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO COME OUT IN OCTOBER. THAT HAS BEEN SHELVED.

VAL>> DIDN'T THAT ONE HAVE A SCENE OF AN L.A. SKYSCRAPER THAT WAS BLOWING UP?

BRAD POMERANCE>> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT, AND --

VAL>> -- BUT THEY SAID, CLOSE ENOUGH.

BRAD POMERANCE>> THAT WAS CLOSE ENOUGH. THEY JUST FEEL AS IF WE'RE NOT READY FOR IT. A COMEDY CALLED "BIG TROUBLE" WITH TIM ALLEN, THAT HAD SOME SCENES OF VIOLENCE ENDING WITH A NUCLEAR ATTACK ON WASHINGTON. THEY COULDN'T HAVE THAT HAPPEN. WE TALKED ABOUT THE "SPIDER MAN" FILM, WHICH IS NOT COMING OUT FOR A LONG TIME, BUT YET THERE ARE PROMOS IN THE THEATERS RIGHT NOW AND, IN THOSE PROMOS, THERE ARE SPIDER WEBS BEING WOVEN BETWEEN THE TWO TWIN TOWERS.

VAL>> WELL, NOW, THAT DEFINITELY WE WANT TO --

BRAD POMERANCE>> -- YEAH, SO THEY HAVE TO PULL THAT.

VAL>> YES, THEY HAVE TO PULL THAT.

BRAD POMERANCE>> SO THERE ARE SO MANY FILMS YOU WOULDN'T EXPECT TO HAVE TO BE PULLED ARE BEING PULLED.

JESS>> BUT IF THEY PULL THEM, HOW LONG DO THEY HAVE TO LEAVE OFF BEFORE THE PUBLIC IS NO LONGER AS SENSITIVE? SOME OF THOSE ARE GOING TO BE ON THE SHELF FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

BRAD POMERANCE>> A FILM LIKE "BIG TROUBLE", FOR EXAMPLE. THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO COME OUT NEXT WEEK. THE STUDIO, DISNEY, HAS ANNOUNCED ALREADY IT'S NOT GOING TO BE IN THE THEATERS UNTIL NEXT YEAR. THAT'S A HUGE ECONOMIC LOSS FOR DISNEY. IT'S BEEN PROMOTED HEAVILY. I HAVE SEEN BILLBOARDS, I HAVE SEEN PROMOTIONS IN THEATERS. THEY'RE GOING TO LOSE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANT TO ACT AS IF THIS ISN'T WORTHY AND WE NEED TO BE SENSITIVE. IT'S A TREMENDOUS TRAGEDY, BUT IT WILL CAUSE A MAJOR DRAG ON THE HOLLYWOOD ECONOMY WHICH IS SO INTEGRAL TO THE LOS ANGELES ECONOMY.

JESS>> THERE'S A GOOD BIT OF GRACE GOING ALONG WITH THIS TOO. IT'S A GRACEFUL WAY TO DO IT.

BRAD POMERANCE>> I THINK IT IS.

VAL>> TELEVISION AFFECTED AS WELL?

BRAD POMERANCE>> ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. "LAW & ORDER", ONE OF THE MOST SUCCESSFUL SERIES, WE'RE NOW GOING ON OUR THIRD "LAW & ORDER" INSTALLMENT STARTING THIS FALL. THEY WERE PLANNING A MINISERIES. THEY HAD TO PULL THAT BECAUSE IT WAS JUST TOO CLOSE TO HOME IN TERMS OF THE VIOLENCE.

VAL>> DID IT INVOLVE TERRORISTS?

BRAD POMERANCE>> IT DID. THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. NOW INTERESTINGLY, THREE NEW SERIES THAT WERE SET TO COME OUT THIS FALL ALL DEALT WITH CIA, UNDERCOVER, PLOTS. ONE OF THEM CALLED "24" ON FOX. IT WAS A 24-HOUR EPISODE, OR IN A 24-HOUR DAY, DEALING WITH THE ASSASSINATION OF A PRESIDENT. PULLED, AND IT WAS ONE OF FOX'S HIGHEST PROFILE SERIES. "THE AGENCY", "ALIAS", ALSO BOTH DEALING WITH THE CIA AND UNDERCOVER AGENTS. "ALIAS" WAS REPUTED TO BE ABC'S NUMBER ONE SHOW FOR THE FALL IN TERMS OF THE MOST HOPES FOR SUCCESS. ALL PULLED. IT'S AMAZING. JUST THIS PAST WEEK, VAL AND JESS, WE'VE HAD SHOWS LIKE "THE WEST WING", IRONICALLY, OUT OF PRODUCTION. "ALLY MCBEAL" OUT OF PRODUCTION. "X FILES" --

VAL>> AGAIN, WHY IS THIS? BECAUSE THEY WERE DEALING WITH TOPICS THAT WERE SENSITIVE --

BRAD POMERANCE>> IN THAT CASE, IT WAS JUST SIMPLY THAT THEY FELT AS IF IT WOULDN'T BE RIGHT TO GO INTO PRODUCTION, ALTHOUGH SOME SHOWS, YOU'RE VERY PRESCIENT, THEY'RE HAVING TO CHANGE THE PLOTS.

JESS>> THESE ARE TWO SHOWS THAT DEAL WITH REAL ISSUES, WITH CURRENT ISSUES. ARE THEY AT SOME POINT IN THE VERY NEAR FUTURE GOING TO BE ABLE TO DEAL WITH THIS ISSUE --

BRAD POMERANCE>> -- A SHOW LIKE "LAW & ORDER" IS WELL-KNOWN FOR BEING A RIPPED FROM THE HEADLINES SERIES. I REALLY WONDER WHETHER --

JESS>> -- "THE WEST WING", TO SOME EXTENT.

VAL>> OH, YES.

BRAD POMERANCE>> "THE WEST WING" IS SO RIPPED FROM THE HEADLINES. LAST YEAR, THEY HAD A KIND OF A PLAY ON DOCTOR LAURA DURING HER CONTROVERSY, SO THEY DO LIKE TO RIP FROM THE HEADLINES. IF IT'S DONE, IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE DONE SO TASTEFULLY, SO TACTFULLY, AND I THINK HOLLYWOOD IS VERY SENSITIVE ABOUT THAT ISSUE RIGHT HERE AND NOW.

VAL>> WELL, NOW, WHAT KIND OF CONVERSATION HAPPENS IN THE EXECUTIVE SUITES WHEN THEY'RE DECIDING TO PULL SOMETHING OFF? IS IT SIMPLY PR? WORRIED ABOUT THEIR IMAGE? ARE THEY ACTUALLY WORRIED ABOUT THE IMPACT THAT A PARTICULAR FILM MIGHT HAVE ON SOCIETY? ARE THEY WORRIED THAT NO ONE WILL COME? WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING ON?

BRAD POMERANCE>> I THINK IT'S A COMBINATION OF FACTORS, DEPENDING ON THE PRODUCER, DEPENDING ON THE STUDIO. I THINK IT'S FEAR OF BACKLASH, I THINK IT'S THEY WANT TO BE SENSITIVE, AND I THINK THEY ALSO WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY DON'T ALIENATE MANY OF THE VIEWERS. IT'S LIKE WE DISCUSSED BEFORE, THE FEAR OF REGULATION BY WASHINGTON. SO I THINK IT'S A VARIETY OF CONCERNS.

JESS>> THE PEOPLE WHO REALLY ARE SHUT DOWN ARE THE COMEDIANS WITH THEIR OPENING MONOLOGUES ON CURRENT AFFAIRS. THIS ONE, THEY CAN'T TOUCH. POOR GARY CONDIT'S GOING TO BE FRESH MATERIAL FOR MONTHS NOW.

BRAD POMERANCE>> WELL, P.S., JAY LENO IS OUT OF PRODUCTION ALL WEEK, SO --

VAL>> -- AS A RESPONSE TO THIS?

BRAD POMERANCE>> AS A RESPONSE TO THIS. ALL THE NEW SYNDICATED PROGRAMS THAT WERE LAUNCHING THIS WEEK, NEXT WEEK, LAST WEEK, ALL OUT OF PRODUCTION.

JESS>> PROBABLY THE BEST WAY TO HANDLE IT IS TO GO DARK AND DO RERUNS.

BRAD POMERANCE>> TO SHUT DOWN. THE EMMY'S? CANCELED AND BEING POSTPONED. THE LATIN GRAMMY'S? ABSOLUTELY CANCELED ON TUESDAY.

JESS>> SO THERE IS SENSITIVITY?

VAL>> THERE IS.

BRAD POMERANCE>> I HOPE SO. I THINK THERE IS.

VAL>> AND MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS LOST.

BRAD POMERANCE>> THAT'S TRUE.

JESS>> BRAD POMERANCE, ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO HAVE YOU WITH US.

VAL>> ALWAYS A PLEASURE.

BRAD POMERANCE>> THANK YOU.

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